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Original poster

Will we be able to refuse treatment from NHS staff who refuse the vaccine?

202 replies

lunar1 · 18/12/2020 10:22

I don't mean now, but a few months down the line when they have all had the opportunity to be vaccinated.

DH had his first dose this morning, but there are many staff refusing. Given that it's going to be a long time before the majority of us are vaccinated, having treatment from vaccinated professionals seems a good way to reduce risks.

What rights does anyone think we will have regarding treatment?

OP posts:
TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 18/12/2020 12:53

‘
It doesn't matter if the HCP you are seeing has been vaccinated or not. If they have been vaccinated it protects them ONLY. It has no impact on you, as the patient, whatsoever.’

No, the fact that there is no evidence yet as you rightly say means we don’t know if there is an impact on the patient, not that there is no impact.

The impact doesn’t appear magically the moment evidence is found for it, it was either there or not there all along.

DailyPotion · 18/12/2020 12:54

How would you even know?

Nerdygirl · 18/12/2020 12:55

Interesting to see so many HCP state that they are not having it. From my own perspective if it doesn’t stop you transmitting but supposedly stops you getting ill then my own decision is that is I would rather try and keep my immune system strong and not have it

itchyfinger · 18/12/2020 12:58

This is a very dark path you're going down OP, basically forced vaccination and exposing peoples medical history. Also, I thought the vaccine hadn't been proven to stop transmission?

Gremlinpoop · 18/12/2020 13:07

No patients can't ask this and it's pointless anyway. Many staff will not be able to even have the vaccine ( breastfeeding, pregnant, allergies, scared of needlesHmm etc). Most haven't even been offered it yet. Also in a short staffed NHS hospital good luck finding a replacement if the staff member you need to see has not had the jab yet. You may find you are waiting rather along time for the help you needed.
Worry about getting yourself done and leave the NHS staff to sort themselves out. They are actually allowed to say no also btw

Dannn · 18/12/2020 14:27

Don’t be so ridiculous. If you’re sick enough to require medical treatment then you should be grateful to receive it from anyone who is competent and able to provide it, regardless of their own personal medical history.

DayBath · 18/12/2020 16:38

@Dannn

Don’t be so ridiculous. If you’re sick enough to require medical treatment then you should be grateful to receive it from anyone who is competent and able to provide it, regardless of their own personal medical history.
I encountered the same attitude from doctors when my grandmother acquired c-diff in hospital. She was admitted on to a ward after surgery next to a known case of c -diff that had been identified but not isolated from other patients. The resulting infection took years to recover from and she eventually died severely underweight as it ravaged her digestive system. This was before the big scandal when hospitals admitted to cover ups and before they put policies in place to stop hospital acquired infections.

I don't believe anybody should be grateful for sub standard levels of infection control protocols.

And to the posters who say the vaccine doesn't stop spread you should go and read the Oxford research. There is mounting evidence that the vaccine does limit asymptomatic spread, they just can't claim it completely stops it. So there is a point to wanting this information from your HCP.

user1471562688 · 18/12/2020 16:41

You will have every right to refuse treatment offered to you. Refuse and off you go but don't come running back when you realise you need it. I've never heard anything so ridiculous in my life.

OpheliasCrayon · 18/12/2020 16:45

No. Quite simply . Nor will you be able to refuse to send your children into school if their teacher hasn't had it.

Jobsharenightmare · 18/12/2020 16:45

In DH's trust they wear a badge to say they have had their flu jab

Really? That's outrageous. It's nobody else's business.

^ In all the services I have worked in there has always been some sort of way of socially reinforcing those who have the flu jab as Trusts are set targets on it.

The Covid vaccine will not form part of the standard vaccination protocol such as for Hep etc so occ health will ask about it but not force anyone to have it. There are also quite a few contraindications for certain groups so it wouldn't be safe to give it to all NHS staff.

StarCat2020 · 18/12/2020 16:54

Why should people be "grateful" for receiving healthcare in the UK?

missyB1 · 18/12/2020 16:56

You dont seem to understand how this vaccine works OP.

But yes you or your dh can refuse whatever treatment you want to refuse. Just don’t expect anyone to care. NHS staff are busy enough with people who do want to be treated.

DayBath · 18/12/2020 17:16

@user1471562688

You will have every right to refuse treatment offered to you. Refuse and off you go but don't come running back when you realise you need it. I've never heard anything so ridiculous in my life.
I presume you're some sort of covid denier who believes it's just the flu, or some other Facebook twaddle then.
LastTrainEast · 18/12/2020 17:22

Though I would hope that medical staff would only refuse for real world reasons. If they refused because they thought Bill Gates was putting chips in it or they thought Boris had made it himself in 10 Downing Street with his home biology set then they are in the wrong profession and you wouldn't trust them with serving you coffee let along a medical procedure.

DayBath · 18/12/2020 17:24

@missyB1

You dont seem to understand how this vaccine works OP.

But yes you or your dh can refuse whatever treatment you want to refuse. Just don’t expect anyone to care. NHS staff are busy enough with people who do want to be treated.

You do realise patients have the right to request a certain clinician if they are willing to wait on their list right?

Pretty common for female sexual assault survivors to ask for female doctors for intimate examinations for example. Doctors are pretty chill about it, it's people like you who seem to tear your hair out over other people's preferences for some reason, doctors and nurses in my experience are very relaxed as long as the patient isn't trying to jump any waiting lists. That's also the reason we are allowed to get a second opinion if we want one. Resources aren't allocated in the way you think, you don't just get one shot at treatment and then you're refused any further access if you don't want it at that particular time. That's why patients are allowed to go away and consider the pros and cons before deciding to have an operation for example. They may have to wait in line for a second appointment with the surgeon but it's all perfectly normal within the NHS.

Hunnihun2 · 18/12/2020 17:30

In DH's trust they wear a badge to say they have had their flu jab**

Honestly I’ve never heard anything like this before or seen it whilst been at work a member of staff wearing a badge to say they have had their flu vaccine @lunar1

I also think your post is mean and shit stirring. People need to chill out and leave people to see how the vaccine plays out rather than ramming there opinions down other people’s throat and trying to impose their views on others.

The A&E tale shows your character OP you lost me at that point Blush

Flowerpot345 · 18/12/2020 17:36

I think you would be pretty stupid to because surely being a nurse you would know that hospitals are understaffed so good luck with finding someone else to care for you....

Jobsharenightmare · 18/12/2020 18:08

Hunnihun2

All of the Trusts I worked for give out I'm A Flu Figher stickers, or pens etc.

Motorina · 18/12/2020 18:09

@DayBath it does depend a bit on why the patient is asking. A female patient asking for a female gynaecologist - yes absolutely. A patient declining to see a non-white clinician? The door is over there, please use it...

In the case of the Covid jab (or any other medical issue) the patient has absolutely no entitlement to that information. If I were asked, I would say just that. That's not to protect my privacy (I want the vaccine as soon as it's rolled out to my area) but the privacy of my colleagues who may be - for example - trying to conceive and so choose not to have it.

And if they chose not to see me then so be it. I am the only one in my service with my particular combination of skills. Their other options are to decline care altogether, or to try and convince commissioners to fund an out of area referral. Good luck with that...

(There's a discussion of the race issue in particular at blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/02/13/roger-kline-what-if-a-patient-wants-to-choose-the-ethnicity-of-their-doctor/)

Motorina · 18/12/2020 18:16

(Also I have never got a flu jab sticker or pen. Notfair.)

iVampire · 18/12/2020 18:20

Staff can be moved out of roles with highly vulnerable patients if they pose a risk to them - for example haematology and oncology units (staff in mine in other years wear ‘I’ve had my flu jab’ badges to reassure patients)

AmericanBulldog · 18/12/2020 18:30

Feel free to refuse, means other people can get treatment sooner and you’ll just need to wait.
Or you could go private and insist they are all vaccinated before they treat you.

gypsywater · 18/12/2020 18:32

How will you know?!
I'm not having it as I am TTC.

CrochetToTheMoon · 18/12/2020 18:33

How would you know? I’ve no idea which vaccinations my colleagues have or haven’t had, we don’t wear badges to say we’ve had the flu jag where I am.

I had my first dose yesterday but have many colleagues declining, I also took a while to decide.

U8myufo · 18/12/2020 18:33

If you were seriously ill I'm sure you wouldn't refuse treatment from anybody. Honestly what a bizarre thing. 2020 gets more and more surreal!

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