Do you support this tier 0 over Christmas?

[notevenat20]

I can see why it might be popular, but won’t it just kill a lot of the people we love the most?

Yes I support it. I know it might be selfish of me but I want to see my family and after the year we’ve had nothing will get in the way of that.

@CandlesBlanketsandTea

If my post makes me a selfish arsehole I'm ok with that, unless you've experienced the level of isolation that single people or those shielding have experienced you can't judge us.

No judging, my elderly disabled mum lives alone and for her, Christmas with me is a big thing!

It’s been so lonely for people and the mental health toll is going to be huge

No I don't support it - originally I thought it was a risky plan, given we were only just coming out of a national lockdown... and having seen the rise in cases in the past few weeks in SE I now think its bloody ludicrous! Whilst I completely understand that families will see others at xmas regardless in some cases, the gov have chosen not to consider what this relaxation may signal to many. I myself will find it difficult to respect or abide by a Jan national lockdown when the trigger for such lockdown will inevitably have been caused (if not wholly, then in a large part) by the xmas relaxation which the same government had allowed! Also, you'll hear lots of people saying they'd see family regardless of whether Boris allowed it or not.... but there is also a large group of people who are saying they wouldn't - so I don't agree that there would be 100% non-compliance with tier restrictions over xmas if there was no relaxation.

I spoke with a handful of local business owners which were forced to close in the recent national lockdown (e.g. hairdressers) and they have all categorically said that their businesses would be sacrificed in order for people to have a family xmas, as its unlikely those smaller outfits will survive another national lockdown.

I think I was more supportive a week ago as a way to guide people not to do more stupid things and prevent neighbours having punch ups. Except people don't get it, and if they are planning to do it, more often than not they are planning to bubble with more households than they should.

With the way things have developed over the last week I think its a very bad idea to even vaguely be seen to say its ok to travel long distances between tiers.

It will screw places just on the edge of getting out of T3. Which for some who have been stuck in it forever is heartbreaking.

The big thing is the huge rise in the South East though. Thats a big deal. Thats a lot of people moving to less populated areas where just a couple of new clusters could really affect the area (less hospital provision outside the SE).

On a personal level my local numbers in my immediate area are cracking so we were beginning to consider spending christmas with close friends who we trust who live a street away. But if we aren't allowed to do that I can live with it.

So I think I am almost hoping now for a uturn on the policy. It makes no reasonable sense, even in terms of mental health if the net result is more restrictions later.

I'm currently arguing with my dm who wants me, dp and 3 dgc (at 3 different schools) to come mingle with her and my dad, plus shielding relatives and their dgc (at 2 different schools)
Apparently Boris has said it's ok and I'm just trying to spoil their xmas.
My reply of "no I'm just trying not to go to any funerals in January" has been met by silence.
Its ridiculous and stupid and people will use it as a free for all.

No.

@RedToothBrush - I agree that there's a chunk of people (admittedly, less so on MN but definitely in RL) who don't understand the limitations of the 3 household limit too. Many think that as long as an indoor space has just 3 households it's fine - meaning they will visit one party (of 3 households) on xmas eve, spend xmas day with a slightly different group of 3 households and then see some friends in the following days. The 'exclusively 3 households' limit doesn't seem to have been well explained.

Given how many parties, groups that certainly are bigger than individual families, and general mixing that has been going on round me, I most certainly am going to take the opportunity to see my Dad for the second time since February (I met Mum half way one day, so have seen her twice).
I am doing considerably less social mixing than most of my neighbours. Trouble is they can get away with it as family are all local. Those of us with longer distances have been harder hit- especially since I need to drive through North Yorks, and the police are monitoring the roads for "out of area traffic".
So, Yes, Thank you Boris for letting me see my family. Frankly, I couldnt care less about the date /Christmas. I just want to be able to see them occasionally, and check if they are putting on a brave face for an hour of skype, and just quite how they are coping with a financially perilous the business due to the shutdown of the hospitality industry.

No. I am dreading what January will look like. Tempted to keep my kids off until the 10 days have passed from the last allowed day of tier 0 but then that’s assuming everyone stuck to that day being the last one! (I’m assuming the scientists have seen that we will catch it within 10 days now and not 14?) If so that will take us to the 6th Jan.

No I don't, but people (in a large and significant minority) don't care and will do what they like over Christmas either way. At least this way people may follow the three household rule.

I think mid January will see a large spike in numbers.

@1990shopefulftm I understand that you feel a bit of a moral obligation but reality is its not those who have a bit of a moral dilemma and sensible who are likely to lead to hospitals refusing visitors due to the rise in cases. It's the ones who have continually broken the rules, don't give two hoots and continue on as normal even refusing to self isolate who cause this.

I don't think you have anything to feel guilty about seeing family and actually for new mums it's incredibly important to get a bit of support and get out of the house

[quote ExeterMummaMia]@RedToothBrush - I agree that there's a chunk of people (admittedly, less so on MN but definitely in RL) who don't understand the limitations of the 3 household limit too. Many think that as long as an indoor space has just 3 households it's fine - meaning they will visit one party (of 3 households) on xmas eve, spend xmas day with a slightly different group of 3 households and then see some friends in the following days. The 'exclusively 3 households' limit doesn't seem to have been well explained.[/quote]
Its also not as straightforward as a simple 3 households!

The 3 households refer to indoor mixing. However all other tier restrictions remain.

So in theory I could have three households in my bubble BUT also then go around to the pub and sit in the bar garden with 5 mates from different households if we all lived in Tier 1 or Tier 2 - all of whom are bubbled too. (But I can't do it in someone's backgarden)

www.gov.uk/guidance/guidance-for-the-christmas-period#meeting-friends-and-family
From 23 December to 27 December, you may choose to form a Christmas bubble.

A Christmas bubble will be able to spend time together in private homes, including second homes and caravans, to attend places of worship, or meet in a public outdoor place.

If you do form a Christmas bubble , you should not meet socially with friends and family you do not live with in your home or garden unless they are part of your Christmas bubble.

In all other settings, people should follow local restrictions in the tier in which they are meeting.

If you do not form a Christmas bubble, you should continue to follow the guidance for the tier you are in.

That in itself will lead others to believe some are breaking the rules when in fact they are not.

For me, depending on what others in my friendship group are doing and what Tier I'm in next week - it may be preferable not to bubble but to back garden over Christmas as I can legally see more people!

Its as clear as bloody mud the whole thing!

No I absolutely do not. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should.

I’m dreading Jan-March.

The large spike in January is practically inevitable. If the natural r0 of this virus (Not the new varient which transmits even more readily) is 3 on a run of the mill week last March then I expect mixing houses indoors at Christmas (even if people stick to the no board games and no singing ) will be a fucking tinderbox and with some hospitals running at 95% capacity it does seem like madness. Yeah, I'm not keen on my kids going back to school in January at all.

@StCharlotte

No.

MIL has banished everyone bless her (she's 89 and is sitting by the phone like a lovestruck teenager waiting for the vaccine call ).

So it will just be us two on the day and we are visiting another couple for lunch on the 27th and that's it. Neither couple has children or we'd be going nowhere.

I hope she gets the call soon. It must be awful to have to try to to pragmatically weigh up how much longer you might be fit and well enough to enjoy socialising with family with how long they might take to get to you with a vaccine.

@Scottishskifun thank you, I do have a tiny bit of guilt about it but seeing a small amount of family for a day will be a big boost mentally.

I don't think I ll ever forget being in pain alone or what I saw other women go through in the hospital but I m very grateful I ve no signs of PTSD or PND yet and other mums haven't been so fortunate in this pandemic due to the lack of support for them.

I wonder if the government will place long and frequent adverts over the period about opening windows, not hugging, spending time outside, that kind of thing? Maybe that might have some impact?

@Lewesq4

I don’t even support three households mixing over Christmas. I am absolutely NOT judging those households who are - it is allowed after all - and I know how important it is for some, but I don’t support the government’s decision to do this. I think it’s vanity on the part of Bojo who wants to be the saviour of Christmas.

Me, mum, and sister are three households.

So three people together in a house is too much, you think?

No, think the three households is a bad idea.

Granted, for small families it's not as bad but for some 3 households can mean a fair bunch of people

@FourTeaFallOut

I wonder if the government will place long and frequent adverts over the period about opening windows, not hugging, spending time outside, that kind of thing? Maybe that might have some impact?

Are you not getting these already? We get them on the radio frequently - I should think I hear it a couple of times every day, and spend less than an hour in the car with the radio on. I dont watch TV, but cant believe they arent there. Weve also had something stuffed through the door.

@Heartofstrings

I'm a bit of a hypocrite. I don't think families should be mixing but I will be seeing family.

I recognise I am in a very privileged position that we are now isolating in the run up to Christmas

Not a bit, a massive hypocrite.

Yes I support it!

We are being sensible and actually only having my parents over ( support bubble for child under one) but I have friends who have spent huge amounts of this year alone and I refuse to judge anyone for what they need to do for their own mental health

I also support it because I don't think they have a choice. Other than on MN ( where most people don't want to see families) I don't know anyone not planning to see close family over Christmas but most being as sensible as possible in their plans. If they don't make it ok I dread to think of the calls to the emergency services on Christmas Day when every one reports everyone. I think it will be an utter nightmare and genuine real calls will be lost!

I've seen a few, short ones that are general but I mean ones that marry the restrictions to the festivities, a kind of forecasting about how Christmas could be nudged differently to favour the odds.

If they changed the rules now there would be a huge backlash and possibly riots. And most people would probably just meet anyway.

My father is terminally ill. My mental health (which was never great anyway) is shot to shit.

We are only meeting my parents who only live 30 mins away but we haven’t seen for months. But as a wider family have decided not to charge across the country although we could 😊 planned it so everyone sees someone but not everyone iykwim We have said only xmas day as it gives a weeks gap between close of school so anything dc may have picked up revealed! No sale shopping or pubs etc in lead up to avoid self isolation. I think as many people as possible should find a way to balance the Christmas window with a bit of common sense. Dreading a jan lockdown and risk to primary children as I believe secondary is a different kettle of fish where home learning is less hands on for parents.