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noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 20:19

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

OP posts:
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9
Donkeysjanetdonkeys · 01/12/2020 21:15

This so called echo chamber sure has a lot of voices in it.

TheMShip · 01/12/2020 21:17

@noblegiraffe

If you get a kid (or staff!) with a positive test, test the whole bubble immediately to catch asymptomatic and presymptomatic cases, send everyone home for 7 days, then test again. Anyone with two negatives can come back.

That sounds exactly what is needed. Thanks for your work in this area!

Boffins for the win.

It requires a lot of logistics and infrastructure to do that sort of thing at scale. Honestly, it's not going to happen. The national and devolved administrations will simply continue slogging through until enough of the population is vaccinated. We've got at least another 6 months to go, and if I'm bleakly realistic, 18. Next winter will still be bad - not catastrophic, but bad.
noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 21:19

The national and devolved administrations will simply continue slogging through until enough of the population is vaccinated

I don't think schools can keep on slogging through another 6 months unless something changes. Infection rates in secondary rose during this lockdown and kids aren't on the vaccination list. School attendance is dire.

OP posts:
Glitterynails · 01/12/2020 21:20

@noblegiraffe
Thank you for your posts. From a fellow teacher and a parent.

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 21:20

I think Scotland and Wales were talking about testing in schools a couple of weeks ago. Not sure whether anything has happened about that.

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MrsMigginsMate · 01/12/2020 21:20

Why are you being flippant with the poster who said this can't be good for your mental health? This isn't the same as undermining you by questioning your mental health like you wrote in your first post so don't refer back to that as if they're doing what you predicted. Its a valid statement, and has to be true. You keep making these threads over and over as if people on Mumsnet somehow have the power to change things for you. People have written to their MPs but really that's the limit of what can be achieved when you keep the campaign to a single forum. I'm not sure it's going to change anything to keep on putting yourself forward to be verbally beaten up by the fringes when the vast majority here have already heard your evidence and agree with your position. In fact all it will probably achieve is frustration for you.

SingToTheSky · 01/12/2020 21:21

I agree

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 21:21

@MrsMigginsMate

Why are you being flippant with the poster who said this can't be good for your mental health? This isn't the same as undermining you by questioning your mental health like you wrote in your first post so don't refer back to that as if they're doing what you predicted. Its a valid statement, and has to be true. You keep making these threads over and over as if people on Mumsnet somehow have the power to change things for you. People have written to their MPs but really that's the limit of what can be achieved when you keep the campaign to a single forum. I'm not sure it's going to change anything to keep on putting yourself forward to be verbally beaten up by the fringes when the vast majority here have already heard your evidence and agree with your position. In fact all it will probably achieve is frustration for you.
Thank you for validating my OP.
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lumpybumpylooloo · 01/12/2020 21:22

Absolutely agree, Noblegiraffe. Very well said. Thank you for continuing to highlight this issue, despite the criticism and abuse you repeatedly receive from some.

SingToTheSky · 01/12/2020 21:22

With the OP I mean. Not read all posts yet. I’m not a teacher, have one child at secondary

MrsFezziwig · 01/12/2020 21:22

Not a teacher. I’ve just been watching the Panorama programme about the effect of Covid on small businesses. To me the failure of government to act to make schools safer is trashing the economy by keeping the transmission rate up so they have to keep on with lockdowns, tiers etc. How they can’t make this obvious connection is baffling.

Appuskidu · 01/12/2020 21:24

@MrsFezziwig

Not a teacher. I’ve just been watching the Panorama programme about the effect of Covid on small businesses. To me the failure of government to act to make schools safer is trashing the economy by keeping the transmission rate up so they have to keep on with lockdowns, tiers etc. How they can’t make this obvious connection is baffling.
I agree. I’m surprised more businesses aren’t fuming, to be honest.
Shitfuckoh · 01/12/2020 21:24

@MrsMigginsMate

Why are you being flippant with the poster who said this can't be good for your mental health? This isn't the same as undermining you by questioning your mental health like you wrote in your first post so don't refer back to that as if they're doing what you predicted. Its a valid statement, and has to be true. You keep making these threads over and over as if people on Mumsnet somehow have the power to change things for you. People have written to their MPs but really that's the limit of what can be achieved when you keep the campaign to a single forum. I'm not sure it's going to change anything to keep on putting yourself forward to be verbally beaten up by the fringes when the vast majority here have already heard your evidence and agree with your position. In fact all it will probably achieve is frustration for you.
So because you believe it won't change anything, you think ignoring it and never mentioning that schools need to be safer, is the answer? Really?
catsarecute · 01/12/2020 21:25

Totally agree with your OP Noble.

We've had mass testing in secondary schools in Liverpool as part of the mass testing on offer more widely in the city.
The mass testing has definitely brought case levels right down here - we're the only area that I know of that went into lockdown in tier 3 and are coming out in tier 2. Compare us to Lancashire and Manchester and you can definitely see the difference. I know we went into tier 3 slightly before them, but Manchester have also had some sort of restrictions since July.
I do think mass testing either of a whole bubble or even a whole school if there is a positive case should be do-able with these new rapid tests.

Interestingly, they haven't published the results of the school testing yet. Just results as part of the whole population testing. I'm wondering what it is they don't want us to know about what levels they have found through mass testing in schools. Watch this space.

Sixpencefaux · 01/12/2020 21:26

Completely agree 👏🏻

cantkeepawayforever · 01/12/2020 21:26

You keep making these threads over and over as if people on Mumsnet somehow have the power to change things for you. People have written to their MPs but really that's the limit of what can be achieved when you keep the campaign to a single forum.

For me, the point is that those who read noble's pots, and others on these threads - whether they just read, or whether they post - have access to a narrative that is different from the government's propaganda.

So they will approach the propaganda with a questioning mind.

They will ask appropriate questions.

They will speak to their school, or write to their MP.

They will, hopefully, start to be critical of the lies being spread, and challenge them whenever they see them - and thus convince those who they speak to, who may never have heard of or read MN.

If those of us who read the threads also post on our own social media, speak to our own friends, write to our own MP, write to our own local newspapers and have access to a continued source of rational, evidenced arguments, then it doesn't matter that the original poster sticks to MN - their influence becomes much wider.

MrsFezziwig · 01/12/2020 21:27

@MrsMiaWallis

Honestly I'd just walk away noble

This can't be good for your mental health.

Like you care.

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 21:27

@MrsFezziwig

Not a teacher. I’ve just been watching the Panorama programme about the effect of Covid on small businesses. To me the failure of government to act to make schools safer is trashing the economy by keeping the transmission rate up so they have to keep on with lockdowns, tiers etc. How they can’t make this obvious connection is baffling.
There is a distinct lack of joining the dots going on in the media, to the point where it has to be deliberate.

Even the article in my OP about Ofsted commenting on the chaos in schools says that the chaos is caused by children having to isolate.

Children having to isolate isn't linked to secondary children being the most infected subset of the population, which is also not being linked to the fact they are crammed into classrooms all day with no masks.

Basically it seems to be 'too many children are isolating, so we need to isolate fewer children'. That's the depth of it.

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MrsMigginsMate · 01/12/2020 21:27

Thank you for validating my OP.

Thank you for not reading my post properly.

Answer the question. Why are you ignoring it? Your OP implies people question your mental health as a way to undermine your argument and invalidate your position. The PP I refer to was not doing this. I was trying to explain that she had a reasonable point that continuing to be verbally abused online can't be good for anyone. This is not the same as saying you currently have a mental health issue that is affecting your viewpoint. Stop using this catchphrase as a way to tell people to "talk to the hand", it's such a silly way to get out of discussion especially when inappropriately used like this.

I actually agree with pretty much everything you say but by God you can be incredibly frustrating to read in some of these threads.

ChloeDecker · 01/12/2020 21:28

Why are you being flippant with the poster who said this can't be good for your mental health?

Because it is rude and a personal attack.

as if people on Mumsnet have the power to change things for you

They do. They can make different decisions based on her threads and help make someone’s life a little better.
I wish the parent(s) who sent their child in whilst waiting for a positive test had read her posts because then I (and my family) might not have Covid right now and I might still be in school physically teaching my pupils, my child might still be in school learning and my DH might not have to be home from his school self isolating.

LizzieVereker · 01/12/2020 21:29

100% agree with and support you noble, thank you for not giving up.

Bettydot · 01/12/2020 21:29

I couldn’t agree more, it’s not about closing schools it’s about making them safer. At present my primary aged child has been off since March as I just don’t feel that the present guidelines give students, staff and families the same protection that all other sectors of society are given. I’m fighting to keep my child’s place while trying to juggle temporarily home schooling all because it doesn’t feel like enough is being done to mitigate the risks.

CallmeAngelina · 01/12/2020 21:30

Yes, if I ran a business that had been run to the edge of oblivion for some sort of sacrifice so that schools could remain open, I'd be pretty fed up to see that sacrifice being pissed up the wall by all the people hosting playdates and sleepovers for their kids, and the numbers of infections in schools still rising.

cantkeepawayforever · 01/12/2020 21:30

I was trying to explain that she had a reasonable point that continuing to be verbally abused online can't be good for anyone.

Campaigners in any number of fields encounter this all the time.

It doesn't mean that they stop campaigning for what they believe to be right - and society as a whole NEEDS those campaigners, so we really shouldn't be trying to discourage them....

Faux concern for someone's mental health as a ruse to get them to stop posting is not a particularly pretty ploy.

MrsMigginsMate · 01/12/2020 21:31

So because you believe it won't change anything, you think ignoring it and never mentioning that schools need to be safer, is the answer? Really?

Nope. I didn't say that.

I was trying to explain that someone commenting that these threads can't be good for noble's mental health is not necessarily undermining her, there could be a real impact on anybody's mental health when constantly faced with trolls online.

If you feel able to take up the campaign when noble reaches her frustration limits then crack on, I'm not stopping anybody. My point was it's a lot for one person's shoulders.