noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

[noblegiraffe]

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

Love that so many people have such strange ideas to how schools work. No way of staying in one class for KS4 and 5. And as for social distancing 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂. Classrooms are crammed, hallways are packed and stairs are the usual bundle fest. Masks often worn - under chins, on heads, over eyes, hanging from ears. Bubbles are a joke as burst as soon as they get on the bus together or jump into mum's friends cars to get a lift home.
It is all a very tragic joke. Schools will not stay open as staff will get sick. As our school is proving.

So many families think that they can mix outside school because it doesn’t matter - they believe that because kids are mixing in school, they can all mix outside school, even households with kids in different schools

Exactly! I think that we needed a VERY clear public health message, made simple so even the most resistant or careless parent understands:

Because your child is mixing at school, that is why you need not to mix at hoe, to contain & limit infection, especially from asymptomatic but infected children.

@CallmeAngelina but I have seen this happen in different schools in our town. Some have whole classes off and some just isolate the 6 or so that they sit near...maybe this is to do with being further up the schools and sets but I know there are differences not only in how visitors are handled but mask wearing/windows open/ children segregated at breaks. It can vary enormously depending on space/layout of school too....

See, I would never dream of jumping onto a thread and start telling over professions how to do their jobs and how it is in their place of work. I would assume that, you know, what with actually being there every day, they might know a little more about the realities of it all.

But schools? No, just pile on in, because after all, every one attended one once, so knows it all.

@mumsneedwine that’s entirely my point. It is often very different school to school and that may be partially why there are some with high rates and some less so?

@Poorlykitten: "but I have seen this happen in different schools in our town. Some have whole classes off and some just isolate the 6 or so that they sit near"
Yes, and I repeat, that will be down to what they were instructed to do by PHE. Does it vary? Is it a shitshow? Of course. Maybe it depends who happens to pick up the phone or whether there's an R in the month. Might as well do, to be honest.

@Poorlykitten 3 weeks ago we hadn't had a case this term. That all changed after an asymptomatic 6th former got a positive ONS test. We now have year groups home as not enough staff left. NO school is safe. It comes down to luck. Once it takes hold there is little that will stop spread except shutting.

@mumsneedwine but this isn’t true of the cases in the two big schools here as it has been contained and the schools didn’t shut. Just wondering g if luck or something else at play...

@CallmeAngelina this is my
Point, it varies wildly. It’s a bit like the mask wearing. I used to work one day in at cafe and you would see some people arriving in medical grade masks and some people turning up with a scarf, or a mask under their nose. It needs, clear set rules across the board. Initially they said children would be in bubbles and if there’s was a positive case, that whole bubble would be off but I don’t see this happening in many schools I
Don’t care who makes the decisions but the decisions should be consistent across the board,

You're preaching to the converted here, @Poorlykitten.

I honestly think it is luck. If Case 0 is not a superspreader, the test is taken early on in the infection and comes back quickly, contacts are traced rapidly and those asked to isolate do so correctly, then things remain under control.

If Case 0 is a superspreader (or if what appears to be Case 0 is in fact a 'canary in the mine', in terms of being a symptomatic case linked to a large number of asymptomatic cases), they test later in their infection, the test takes a few days to come back allowing contacts to mix freely in the interim, contacts are not traced quickly or completely and those asked to isolate are amongst the 89% who don't do so correctly, then things get out of control much more quickly.

Much of the above is luck, and almost none of it is under school control or dependent on their behaviour.

@CallmeAngelina as I have said, I do work in schools and I get to see many different practices that maybe a teacher, working in one school, might not see. I’ve run 10 workshops in the last 3 weeks, in 10 different schools and they all seem to vary in some way.

@Poorlykitten We contained it for 2 weeks. But it had taken too good a hold and spread too far. It is luck as there are so many asymptomatic cases in the kids so if they manage not to spread it then that's great. However track and trace has gone nuts this weekend and loads more of my colleagues are now off tomorrow as been told to isolate. Blaming schools for the spread is so unfair as they act on the advice of PHE. Weirdly, most teachers are not trained in managing public health emergencies.

@CallmeAngelina

See, I would never dream of jumping onto a thread and start telling over professions how to do their jobs and how it is in their place of work. I would assume that, you know, what with actually being there every day, they might know a little more about the realities of it all.

But schools? No, just pile on in, because after all, every one attended one once, so knows it all.

That sums up pretty much every thread about education. And why teacher's accounts of their working day will never be accepted by some people.

Initially they said children would be in bubbles and if there’s was a positive case, that whole bubble would be off but I don’t see this happening in many schools

That’s because initially PHE were in charge of the school helpline and were making decisions in line with the risk assessments that were made in the summer. This resulted in lots of kids being sent home, making the govt look bad so the DfE elbowed PHE out of the way and took over the school helpline. They advise basically no one should go home if there is any excuse as to why they might get to stay. Funnily enough, infection rates then shot up.

Sorry @CallmeAngelina, I’m just finding it all so frustrating and am looking for answers where there are perhaps none. Maybe it’s just simply luck.

@mumsneedwine you have read me very wrong indeed, if you think I am blaming schools. I am not. I absolutely know who is to blame for this shit show. We have had no clear guidance on anything to do with this pandemic.

@Poorlykitten - yes, if the DfE gave clear, consistent advice, that would certainly help school approaches to become more consistent, wouldn’t it (naming no DfE advice on masks...).Talking of people coming into schools, like you, that doesn’t help with spread, as you are in and out of lots of schools. Supply teachers are not unknown to have been the ones who spread covid across bubbles and schools. It only takes one super spreader to rapidly cause a problem in the school, or in the entire local community if they are ignoring the rules outside of school.

@Poorlykitten 😊sorry. Bit of a touchy subject. Parents have been blaming us on social media and I'm having to take v deep breaths not to comment. My mask is not coming off now, even to teach. If the kids can't hear me then tough. Might help keep me warm as I'm also always freezing.
I have lost the joy of teaching. I don't want to be there anymore.

Fortunately I work outside now (most of the time) so possibilities are low but often refuse to come inside for lunch and rely on my very strong bladder. It’s extremely worrying for me too as I’m in the at risk group, but it’s my job. Luckily I get tested routinely because of my husband’s job. Children do need to be in school and they do need other experiences apart from maths and English.

Completely agree with your initial post OP. I'll read the whole thread when u have time but you're spot on (and I'm talking as a head). Schools aren't safe. Staff are getting sick and dying and it's being glossed over.

@mumsneedwine no worries at all, I feel for you, I really do. I’m not a teacher but I work closely with them a I run after school clubs too, and I am fully supportive of all that they do. It’s a mess and you guys are frontline and I’m very sorry you have been left without help or clear guidance.

Sorry for typos! Am in a rush.

@Poorlykitten but that's the point. Kids are not in school as they are closing due to lack of staff. All I ask is to keep us safer and then we can keep kids in school. It's so simple. No staff, no school.