Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 20:19

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
ChloeDecker · 01/12/2020 20:51

Absolutely agree noble!
Safer open schools please!

cantkeepawayforever · 01/12/2020 20:51

@3littlewords

Mass testing in schools would be ideal but I don't see how logistically it can be done. The army was drafted in to do the mass test pilot scheme in Liverpool, Bojo said he was unable to offer that in every tier 3 area as it would mean testing millions of people (in concentrated areas) at the same time. how could we possibly have the man power and resources to mass test every school every time someone tests positive across the whole country?? I mean each positive test would need probably over 1000 (that's a moderate estimate) tests to test the rest of the school and staff each time. Who does this testing ? Where are the tests stored? Who's processing each test? Unless I'm missing the point of course
I don't think it needs to be 1000.

Even if we only tested those who are currently sent home to isolate as close contacts - and then their close contacts if any tested positive - or each class bubble, that would help.

So positive test in a secondary year group might mean testing the year group, in schools that are currently having to send that many home for 2 weeks to isolate. Or a class bubble in primary. A few hundred at max.

NaughtipussMaximus · 01/12/2020 20:52

This reply has been deleted

Post references deleted post Talk Guidelines.

3littlewords · 01/12/2020 20:52

@noblegiraffe

how could we possibly have the man power and resources to mass test every school

We were promised mobile testing units for this purpose back in September. Starting by testing bubbles would be do-able especially with those new 30 minute tests.

They naively didnt realise how many mobile testing units would be needed obviously
noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 20:54

They naively didnt realise how many mobile testing units would be needed obviously

Well they were surprised when Test and Trace fell over the minute schools opened so you're probably right.

They seem pretty clueless about schools as a whole.

OP posts:
WouldBeGood · 01/12/2020 20:54

No. Schools are fine. Keep them open.

They can’t be that deadly as @noblegiraffe is still going strong months in.

Thanks teachers I really appreciate what you do

LilyPond2 · 01/12/2020 20:54

Posting in support - a subject close to my heart. My one comment on testing is that my understanding is that if someone has had Covid in the last 90 days there is a risk of further tests producing false positives due to residual virus, so any testing regime would need to take that into account. But totally agree that we need to get away from the idiotic notion only the "official" three symptoms justify a test.

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 20:55

No. Schools are fine. Keep them open.

Thank you for validating my OP.

OP posts:
Appuskidu · 01/12/2020 20:55

Fantastic OP-I agree with every word, as a parent and teacher.

The government seem very worried about university students and want them all to be tested; why are they completely ignoring schools?!

cantkeepawayforever · 01/12/2020 20:55

giraffe, if you think any parent is enjoying ANY of this, you need your head examined.

Has noble claimed that parents are enjoying this?

The problem is that if people stop posting the truth about what is happening in schools, the propaganda - 'schools are safe'; 'unions ant schools to close forever'; 'there is no transmission in schools'; 'no teachers are becoming ill' will become 'truth', because there will be no factual rebuttals.

(See Brexit, and messages on buses .....now it's only a few weeks away, what has happened to that 'truth'?)

Donkeysjanetdonkeys · 01/12/2020 20:56

They can’t be that deadly as @noblegiraffe is still going strong months in.

Wow. Do you realise how that sounds?

3littlewords · 01/12/2020 20:56

@cantkeepawayforever A few hundred at max

Yes each time theres 1 positive case! What about Multiple cases in different year groups? Its not likely to be a one off occurance is it

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 20:56

giraffe, if you think any parent is enjoying ANY of this, you need your head examined.

I said posters. There are definitely some posters enjoying winding up teachers. They may not necessarily be parents of school-aged children. Some of them definitely aren't.

OP posts:
Appuskidu · 01/12/2020 20:56

@WouldBeGood

No. Schools are fine. Keep them open.

They can’t be that deadly as @noblegiraffe is still going strong months in.

Thanks teachers I really appreciate what you do

Has the OP, or anyone on this thread, suggested closing them?
Shitfuckoh · 01/12/2020 20:57

@3littlewords
Are you sure it was a case of not realising or do you think perhaps it was a case of head in sand?
I've seen no evidence yet of them actually wanting to track spread in schools. Personally, 1 of my DC has had a full school closure, 2 weeks isolation & a class closure (continuing on from the isolation) currently ongoing due to staff illness & bubbles popping all over his school. Due to the amount of positives his school had prior to the school closure & now, it would make sense to test students too.
This isn't a one off.
Sending mobile units out will put paid to their message of how safe schools are.

Comefromaway · 01/12/2020 20:57

@LilyPond2

Posting in support - a subject close to my heart. My one comment on testing is that my understanding is that if someone has had Covid in the last 90 days there is a risk of further tests producing false positives due to residual virus, so any testing regime would need to take that into account. But totally agree that we need to get away from the idiotic notion only the "official" three symptoms justify a test.
My local authority (not the one where dd and dh teach/study) are encouraging anyone with a long list of non standard symptoms plus anyone who has had contact with Covid at all to be tested.
SomnolentSekhmet · 01/12/2020 20:58

I'm a parent, I agree wholeheartedly with keeping schools open safely. The situation as it is is safe for neither staff nor pupils and is frankly disgusting.

monkeytennis97 · 01/12/2020 20:58

Agree with every word Noble.

WouldBeGood · 01/12/2020 20:58

It’s quite disturbing to refer to oneself in the third person though.

cantkeepawayforever · 01/12/2020 20:58

Yes each time theres 1 positive case! What about Multiple cases in different year groups? Its not likely to be a one off occurance is it

It depends. If schools were safer, and rapid testing meant all infected students isolated properly, then there would obviously be fewer multiple cases.

When there were big outbreaks in food factories, did people say 'oh, there are multiple cases, we can't possibly test?'

motherrunner · 01/12/2020 20:59

@WouldBeGood

No. Schools are fine. Keep them open.

They can’t be that deadly as @noblegiraffe is still going strong months in.

Thanks teachers I really appreciate what you do

@WouldBeGood how can you be that blasé? My school is definitely ‘not fine’. I’m in the West Mids. We are ‘not open’. We have to keep closing due to staffing levels. One pregnant teacher is positive and is really poorly at the moment. I’ve lost count of all the positive cases we have. We go into work worried each day.
noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 20:59

@WouldBeGood

It’s quite disturbing to refer to oneself in the third person though.
Thank you for validating my OP.
OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 01/12/2020 20:59

The quick tests, the same as some in NHS have would help.

Shitfuckoh · 01/12/2020 21:00

@WouldBeGood

No. Schools are fine. Keep them open.

They can’t be that deadly as @noblegiraffe is still going strong months in.

Thanks teachers I really appreciate what you do

Oh fantastic. Schools are fine.

Fancy coming to explain to my 9 year old child why he isn't in school after isolating for 14 days?
Why 3 of his friends tested positive & his class teacher is currently extremely unwell?
I can't find the words but as you're so sure in your understanding of 'it can't be that deadly' etc maybe you'll have the words.

Thought not.

cantkeepawayforever · 01/12/2020 21:01

@MarshaBradyo

The quick tests, the same as some in NHS have would help.
Exactly. Once university students have been tested and sent home, then shift that capacity to schools.