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noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 20:19

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

OP posts:
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noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 21:31

@MrsMigginsMate

Thank you for validating my OP.

Thank you for not reading my post properly.

Answer the question. Why are you ignoring it? Your OP implies people question your mental health as a way to undermine your argument and invalidate your position. The PP I refer to was not doing this. I was trying to explain that she had a reasonable point that continuing to be verbally abused online can't be good for anyone. This is not the same as saying you currently have a mental health issue that is affecting your viewpoint. Stop using this catchphrase as a way to tell people to "talk to the hand", it's such a silly way to get out of discussion especially when inappropriately used like this.

I actually agree with pretty much everything you say but by God you can be incredibly frustrating to read in some of these threads.

I've been posting these threads for months now. I've seen every permutation of trying to shut me up.

Telling me that posting my threads is a pointless waste of time because there's nothing that can be done about things (as you have done) is just another version of 'SHUT THE HELL UP, NOBLE'.

If being verbally abused online is bad, please take it up with those posting the abuse.

OP posts:
Legoandloldolls · 01/12/2020 21:32

It's all so late in the day in regards to this pandemic. I doubt anything will change in schools now because everyone is being diverted by the vaccine news. However it seems unlikely most people under 50 wont be offered the vaccine for ages yet

CallmeAngelina · 01/12/2020 21:32

"as if people on Mumsnet have the power to change things for you"

Well, we already know that the DfE read these threads, as they asked MNHQ to post on one of them last week.

So, let's keep it up.

Shitfuckoh · 01/12/2020 21:34

@CallmeAngelina

"as if people on Mumsnet have the power to change things for you"

Well, we already know that the DfE read these threads, as they asked MNHQ to post on one of them last week.

So, let's keep it up.

I've seen this mentioned a few times now. What was the post & why did they have MNHQ post it?
cantkeepawayforever · 01/12/2020 21:34

If you feel able to take up the campaign when noble reaches her frustration limits then crack on, I'm not stopping anybody. My point was it's a lot for one person's shoulders.

It is. But questioning someone's mental health is not a good way to try to reduce that burden, is it?

Supporting them, understanding WHY they might keep posting, posting supportively rather than undermining, posting about the issue rather than the individual, taking on your own small part - THAT would reduce the burden on noble's shoulders an awful lot more than commenting only on mental health impacts, surely?

Audacity7 · 01/12/2020 21:34

Thank you @noblegiraffe. I totally agree with you - I just wish the government would listen and parents appreciate us staff more and appreciate the situation in schools.

MrsMigginsMate · 01/12/2020 21:35

@cantkeepawayforever. See my other post. I'm not trying to stop anything don't be so daft.

because it is rude and a personal attack.. @ChloeDecker I didn't read it that way at all. Perhaps the OP has previous beef with that PP I'm not privvy to but on face value it seems a reasonable thing to express concern for someone's wellbeing. It wasn't written in the of concern trolling by my interpretation.

OpheliasCrayon · 01/12/2020 21:35

@noblegiraffe

I don’t think it’s a game for anyone?

Of course it is. Have you not seen the joy with which the descend to tell teachers that they are lazy or don't deserve safety measures or to post about how it's teachers going on holiday that's the problem?

They do it for fun.

They started on GPs the other day. It's all either teacher bashing or GP bashing. Or I remember nurse bashing for dancing earlier on the pandemic.

I think many people forget that behind every name ( well recognised or not ) are real people, with real lives, real emotions and real needs (be that dancing at the start of an shift to feel positive or a big pile of cake on a weekend after a crap week...whatever it is).

I've not read the whole thing as I am absolutely exhausted after a very long few weeks in my SEN school where anxieties are high and covid has been spreading everywhere.

People are very quick to judge and slam blame on people but please, please know this - schools aren't safe. Covid is everywhere. We have very little means of protecting ourselves (in SEN it's close to nothing and I am ok with that, our kids need as close to normal as is humanly possible so we don't have PPE etc) and we are working our arsed off day in, day out. We have all the normal work load , plus on / off virtual teaching, and planning for virtual teaching, never being quite sure when it might happen.

We have been working throughout, we're very short staffed, people are worried, rules are forever changing and we constantly have new situations to manage and adapt to.

I am NOT looking for praise, or thanks (in fact I ask people please not to - it's lovely to be thanked and I've often commented things on threads and then receive messages of thanks / appreciation which really is lovely and always appreciated)... I don't want or need that.

But I want people who criticise us, and others, that we are trying our absolute hardest. I'm sure I speak for all school staff when I say we could not be trying harder. Despite individual worries, health concerns (I'm CEV and whilst not choosing to shield have constant serious health problems to manage anyway), stressed out xjilre and parents, if our schools are open and we can go in - we are there , doing our absolute level best for everyones children, whilst then many of us are going home to our own families. I'm so exhausted I'm falling asleep doing my work all evening.

I, and most of us, to want schools open. I don't personally mind about safety but please people, please before you bash us, know how broken we are going into risky and certainly not safe situations every day.

Please think of that, and us, and our own mental health, and anything else, before you critique us and tell us we're wrong, we want schools shut, we're lazy...whatever it is. I don't know I've seen them all to be honest!!

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 21:36

Perhaps the OP has previous beef with that PP I'm not privvy to but on face value it seems a reasonable thing to express concern for someone's wellbeing

Did you read my OP?

OP posts:
cantkeepawayforever · 01/12/2020 21:37

[quote MrsMigginsMate]@cantkeepawayforever. See my other post. I'm not trying to stop anything don't be so daft.

because it is rude and a personal attack.. @ChloeDecker I didn't read it that way at all. Perhaps the OP has previous beef with that PP I'm not privvy to but on face value it seems a reasonable thing to express concern for someone's wellbeing. It wasn't written in the of concern trolling by my interpretation.[/quote]
Then why post? If you have a genuine concern for nobles mental health, PM her and ask what you can do to help.

MrsMigginsMate · 01/12/2020 21:37

@CallmeAngelina

"as if people on Mumsnet have the power to change things for you"

Well, we already know that the DfE read these threads, as they asked MNHQ to post on one of them last week.

So, let's keep it up.

Yes I was aware of this and asked if anyone in the thread could direct me to their username.

As seems to the norm in these threads a lot of lurking posters are completely ignored when they try to interact....or torn apart for no reason. Its no wonder people are put off from engaging with the subject is it.

ForeverInADay · 01/12/2020 21:37

Completely agree Noble (and I'm not a teacher). The DfE's failure to publish the data that would demonstrate the real situation is outrageous.

I do hope you are ok too though and not under too much strain personally. Thank you so much for continuing to highlight this so well.

NoGoodPunsLeft · 01/12/2020 21:38

@Shitfuckoh I think they posted some info regarding the crappy stats recently published which allegedly show that teachers are no more at risk from covid than anyone else. It was conveniently right at the end of one of the school threads.

MrsFezziwig · 01/12/2020 21:38

The PP I refer to was not doing this. I was trying to explain that she had a reasonable point that continuing to be verbally abused online can't be good for anyone.

@MrsMigginsMate the PP to whom you refer thinks that because all is well in her own little corner of the world then everyone else is lying. Trust me, she has no concern whatsoever about OP’s mental health.

OpheliasCrayon · 01/12/2020 21:38

They started on GPs the other day. It's all either teacher bashing or GP bashing. Or I remember nurse bashing for dancing earlier on the pandemic.

I think many people forget that behind every name ( well recognised or not ) are real people, with real lives, real emotions and real needs (be that dancing at the start of an shift to feel positive or a big pile of cake on a weekend after a crap week...whatever it is).

I've not read the whole thing as I am absolutely exhausted after a very long few weeks in my SEN school where anxieties are high and covid has been spreading everywhere.

People are very quick to judge and slam blame on people but please, please know this - schools aren't safe. Covid is everywhere. We have very little means of protecting ourselves (in SEN it's close to nothing and I am ok with that, our kids need as close to normal as is humanly possible so we don't have PPE etc) and we are working our arsed off day in, day out. We have all the normal work load , plus on / off virtual teaching, and planning for virtual teaching, never being quite sure when it might happen.

We have been working throughout, we're very short staffed, people are worried, rules are forever changing and we constantly have new situations to manage and adapt to.

I am NOT looking for praise, or thanks (in fact I ask people please not to - it's lovely to be thanked and I've often commented things on threads and then receive messages of thanks / appreciation which really is lovely and always appreciated)... I don't want or need that.

But I want people who criticise us, and others, that we are trying our absolute hardest. I'm sure I speak for all school staff when I say we could not be trying harder. Despite individual worries, health concerns (I'm CEV and whilst not choosing to shield have constant serious health problems to manage anyway), stressed out xjilre and parents, if our schools are open and we can go in - we are there , doing our absolute level best for everyones children, whilst then many of us are going home to our own families. I'm so exhausted I'm falling asleep doing my work all evening.

I, and most of us, to want schools open. I don't personally mind about safety but please people, please before you bash us, know how broken we are going into risky and certainly not safe situations every day.

Please think of that, and us, and our own mental health, and anything else, before you critique us and tell us we're wrong, we want schools shut, we're lazy...whatever it is. I don't know I've seen them all to be honest!!

cantkeepawayforever · 01/12/2020 21:38

Mrs,

As far as I remember, the DfE asked MN admin to post on their behalf, rather than using their own username, so unfortunately it isn't possible to contact or @ mention them directly.

CallmeAngelina · 01/12/2020 21:39

@Shitfuckoh. It was right at the very end of this thread, which ended last Wednesday.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4082589-Is-a-change-beginning-to-happen-regarding-schools
Rowan came on and said they'd been asked by the DfE to post it.

MrsMigginsMate · 01/12/2020 21:40

@cantkeepawayforever

I read the thread and saw the PPs mental health comment I raised my eyebrow at the nobles silly reply and so I posted because I felt the PP had been misconstrued.
Come to think of it by your argument why are any of us posting on here? Yes good idea, let's all DM each other and never post our thoughts in a thread again....bizarre.

ChloeDecker · 01/12/2020 21:40

Yes I was aware of this and asked if anyone in the thread could direct me to their username.

As seems to the norm in these threads a lot of lurking posters are completely ignored

Sorry. I didn’t see this.
The DofE asked MNHQ to post on their behalf so they don’t have a username. I’ll find the post and link it for you.

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 21:42

As seems to the norm in these threads a lot of lurking posters are completely ignored when they try to interact

Are you genuinely suggesting that it's my job to respond to everyone? Or someone's job?

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 01/12/2020 21:42

My daughter tried to do in her school what noble is doing on here. Raising awareness, writing letters, fighting for her school to be safer, taking the flak.

She’s had several breakdowns and is now being sent home for the rest of the term. No-one is listening, no-one is doing anything.

ChloeDecker · 01/12/2020 21:43

They started on GPs the other day. It's all either teacher bashing or GP bashing. Or I remember nurse bashing for dancing earlier on the pandemic.

I remember that too. It was awful. Some nasty police threads too. I spoke out against that on those threads and the dancing TikTok one in support.

Shitfuckoh · 01/12/2020 21:45

@OpheliasCrayon

I know you want no thanks, so I won't.
What I will say is, I hope over the Christmas break you & all teaching staff manage to destress as much as possible, as it's absolutely needed & very much deserved, regardless of some of the batshitness you may read.
(my eldest attends a special school so your post struck a cord a lot more than it might have done)

MrsMiaWallis · 01/12/2020 21:47

Noone wants to shut you up noble, don't be paranoid.

You carry on posting if you want. It must be bloody exhausting though.