noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

[noblegiraffe]

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

The only social distancing in state schools is with other year groups. My school are pretty strict with this. In the actual classroom they are packed in like sardines as usual. I as the teacher maintain a 1m plus distance at all times. I can't see any state school being any different!?

40% of our students arrive on buses with mixed year groups and have been warned for hanging out in mixed age groups before and after school.
We have had a couple of cases in a tier 3 area. It is pure luck 🤷‍♀️

@Comefromaway - given that rapid spread seems to be caused by the presence of super-spreaders, I’m not really surprised by big differences between schools: it depends which have been unlucky enough to have a super-spreader in. Also, which staff have been affected by isolation rules or other illness - some will be more critical for maintaining hygiene and social-distancing discipline than others. And, of course, if tests are poorly taken, or taken early on when viral load is low, so come back negative, and people return to school as a result, then that is really not going to help, especially if one of the symptoms is a cough, which apparently is perfectly acceptable to bring into school if you’ve had one negative test result and otherwise claim to feel well.

It's luck. 3 weeks ago we hadn't had a case this term. Be We are now closed to all but exam years. So many staff sick or isolating we don't have many left. Lots of students tested positive this weekend too. I'd suggest not getting smug if your school has not been affected - yet.

I think that the next two weeks are going to be dangerous, tiers or no tiers.
People are out and about. It’s the run up to Christmas so one way or another, people will socialise. It’s cold so people will socialise indoors. Schools are still open. Ventilation in schools and on school transport will be more difficult as it’s getting properly cold. Rates in the community will feed into schools, and that will feed back in a cycle of amplification.
Some people will take extra care, others will not. Some will just say, what will be will be, and let their guard down. I think the end of December and into January will be very difficult, unless the virus magically and unexpectedly disappears for the festive season.

I wonder if it's got the memo that it is not to infect anyone between the 23rd and 27th December?

And then we see scenes like this. Bit like lesson changeover in many secondary schools really.

Please don't tell me that is a recent photo outside Harrods?

Yesterday.

However, we know there weren’t massive spikes in transmission related to mass protests or beaches or VE Day so there’s hope that as those queues were outside and unlikely to be replicated inside the shops as they have to implement covid measures, things might not be as dreadful as a result as you might expect.

@mrshoho, those pictures were taken yesterday, with similar scenes at Covent Garden. The accompanying report (albeit from the DM) said crowds were trying to "storm" the store. Who knows, but if they were, I'd be surprised if they then slowed right down to apply masks and sanitiser abs walk in an orderly manner for their 15 minutes of browsing.

But... why Harrods?

I hope that you're right noble.

It is a concern that viruses spread much better in cold, damp weather though.

I would guess that’s because the weather forces people inside, Christina. We know that being indoors is where the big risks are.

Apart from indoors in schools, noble. Completely risk-free there.

Obvs, Ange. Magic walls and lashings of hand sanitiser.

People really should be considering holding their Christmas dinners in classrooms.

I work in schools. I run workshops in them, so I am aware what’s going on and there are many differences between schools and how they implement the rules. Some schools for example won’t let us in without a strict covid proceedure in place and we can use the toilets/staff room etc, nor venture in to main classroom. Others we have been allowed everywhere and not even asked to sign in. I’m just suggesting some people and schools might be more on the the social distancing than others and I have seen differences between how it’s being handled. I know lots of schools who only isolate a few pupils who sit next to or near by the positive case, whereas others are sending off the whole class just to be cautious. I’m just wondering why the discrepancies and I don’t think there’s just one answer.

*sorry that should read ‘and we can’t use the toilets or common rooms’....

It’s not up to the school who gets sent home.

The schools who send less pupils home are the ones who tend to keep stricter records about who sits where and enforces less mixing within year groups.

@Comefromaway

The schools who send less pupils home are the ones who tend to keep stricter records about who sits where and enforces less mixing within year groups.

But that creates an obvious issue as Covid is an airborne virus. What point is there in NOT sending home a fellow pupil who has been within 2.1 metres of a positive case for 2 hours in an unventilated room?

But that creates an obvious issue as Covid is an airborne virus.

Wipe the desks and use hand sanitiser folks!

I think it makes more sense that the whole class is sent off, for example in my child’s case they are kept as a class bubble and if someone is poorly, they all go home. I Don’t know who decides this but seems to be a school by school decision as they all differ, as I have pointed out.

It’s airborne but also survives on surfaces....

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it

@noblegiraffe thank you for highlighting all this. I teach in a university, where we've been able to use social distancing, require students to wear masks, and teach online as well as in-person. At my place, there are no known cases of transmission in the seminar room.

But I know school teachers who are ill, or who are resigned to becoming ill (including a heavily pregnant friend who's been given no quarter at all).

Teachers have been hung out to dry by this government.

And the lack of understanding that our recent (English) lockdown was precisely to try to keep the schools (and universities) open - a jolly good thing. But when families then misunderstand this and say "Oh well, little Janie is already mixing with all sorts at school, so there's no point in following the rules at home"

They need to be told (by clear Government communications) that they must follow the rues assiduously outside of schools, in order to allow schools to stay open.

Grrrrr. I think the way teachers have been treated is a government mismanagement scandal second only to requiring COVID-free nursing homes to take COVID-infected elderly patients in the early days of the first lockdown.

@Poorlykitten

I think it makes more sense that the whole class is sent off, for example in my child’s case they are kept as a class bubble and if someone is poorly, they all go home. I Don’t know who decides this but seems to be a school by school decision as they all differ, as I have pointed out.

The thing is, that is possible for primary, and early secondary.

Even if subjects traditionally taught in sets are made mixed ability for the duration, separate classes just isn't a possible strategy once children start choosing options (Y9; Y10 at the absolute latest, often earlier for e.g. specific language choices).

I'd love to see DD's Y13 class being taught as a class bubble .... what they would all do during her art lesson, for example, might be a sight to behold. She's the only person in the school doing her combination of subjects.

@Poorlykitten, who is sent home is not a decision made by schools. It comes from PHE if they pick up the phone.
There may well be differences in what individual schools allow in regards to visitors/signing in etc.

@Alethiometrical you are 100% correct.

I’m a teacher. I hear what students have been up to out of school, and what their families have been doing outside the school. So many families think that they can mix outside school because it doesn’t matter - they believe that because kids are mixing in school, they can all mix outside school, even households with kids in different schools.