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noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 20:19

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

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StaffAssociationRepresentative · 05/12/2020 20:33

still no excuse for the crap management at the DfE - no reason to be smug about that. He should hang his head in shame

WhyNotMe40 · 05/12/2020 20:53

[quote Clavinova]Shameless, smug and offensive

Sorry - but I genuinely believe that school staff could better protect themselves and others by wearing masks - even if pupils do not.

Local level first in Scotland -

October -
"Midlothian teachers are now also being told to wear face masks in classrooms - though this has not yet been made mandatory by the Scottish Governement."

"A spokesperson for Midlothian Council confirmed that staff are being encouraged to wear face coverings in classrooms and said a number of other local authorities are taking similar action."

"A Midlothian Council spokeswoman said: “Like a number of other local authorities, we’ve advised staff the wearing of face coverings should now be the norm in schools."

"They will be compulsory when moving around school corridors but also in areas such as staff rooms as per Scottish Government guidance."

www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/midlothian-teachers-now-told-wear-19096637[/quote]
Ffs why the constant slurs?
England education is driven from the top. The relentless tickbox irrelevant drivel that Give/Cummings deemed important is absolutely driving the love of teaching and learning out of teachers and pupils alike.
The whol Ofsted

WhyNotMe40 · 05/12/2020 20:56

Sorry didn't finish (child not quite asleep judging by the flailing arm caused a premature posting) - the whole Ofsted irrelevant focusing and football league esque scoring has driven schools to being exam pass factories.
Blame the school judgement process for how schools make decisions. Don't blame the teachers. That's just low. Or calling for strike action????

WhyNotMe40 · 05/12/2020 20:57

Scottish education has a completely different set up.

Clavinova · 05/12/2020 21:00

He should hang his head in shame

You are blaming the whole of the DfE? The private sector?

tinytemper66 · 05/12/2020 21:00

Had testing in my school last week. 450 tested - no positive cases! Resting next week and we will see what that will bring!

WhyNotMe40 · 05/12/2020 21:03

@tinytemper66

Had testing in my school last week. 450 tested - no positive cases! Resting next week and we will see what that will bring!
That's amazing! Where are you? I'm in the SW previously tier 1, and we have a couple of parental cases each week at least. I think theyve stopped getting their kids tested as we are consistently sending kids home with coughs for the parents to test positive later. Would absolutely love to have whole school testing.
borntobequiet · 05/12/2020 21:04

It takes a great deal of skill, training or natural talent to be persistently and relentlessly provocative, cloth-eared and gleefully insulting while projecting absolutely zero persona. I have never met any person with these particular qualities, but Clav has it down to a T.

Comefromaway · 05/12/2020 21:04

I’d be really interested to know where you are as well.

noblegiraffe · 05/12/2020 21:10

@tinytemper66

Had testing in my school last week. 450 tested - no positive cases! Resting next week and we will see what that will bring!
That must be a relief! How come only 450 tested, is that just a couple of year groups or are you primary? Did it include staff?

I’d love to get my school tested. I’d be astounded if there were no cases found though.

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monkeytennis97 · 05/12/2020 21:14

As far as I'm concerned the DfE has school staff's blood on their hands. Willful negligence.

borntobequiet · 05/12/2020 21:21

@tinytemper66

Had testing in my school last week. 450 tested - no positive cases! Resting next week and we will see what that will bring!
Were they lateral flow tests? www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4744
mrshoho · 05/12/2020 21:24

@Clavinova

He should hang his head in shame

You are blaming the whole of the DfE? The private sector?

Could you explain more on what you mean here?
WhyNotMe40 · 05/12/2020 21:25

@monkeytennis97

As far as I'm concerned the DfE has school staff's blood on their hands. Willful negligence.
I'll raise you reckless endangerment
WhyNotMe40 · 05/12/2020 21:27

Personally I think the decision makers at the DfE should spend at least one week every 5 years shadowing various average employees at various average schools. See what it is really like at the chalkface. As it is hugely apparent that they have fuck all idea of the realities.

noblegiraffe · 05/12/2020 21:28

On Radio 4 the other morning it was mentioned that some care homes were being more cautious than advised because they could be sued in the event of an outbreak, which is apparently something that can’t happen to the NHS.

Is there any legal protection for schools in a pandemic against inadequate measures leading to outbreaks?

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WhyNotMe40 · 05/12/2020 21:34

@noblegiraffe

On Radio 4 the other morning it was mentioned that some care homes were being more cautious than advised because they could be sued in the event of an outbreak, which is apparently something that can’t happen to the NHS.

Is there any legal protection for schools in a pandemic against inadequate measures leading to outbreaks?

I can't even go and wave at the window at my relative's ground floor room let alone speak to her. Her care home are doing a fabulous job at keeping the home Covid free but I haven't seen her since February. I sort of hope that individual schools can't be sued as they are just following DfE guidance. I really want the decision makers held personally responsible. We have teenagers. Kids. Suffering from long Covid in our school. Kids with possible permanent damage. Teachers incapacitated. It could and should have been avoided.
cantkeepawayforever · 05/12/2020 21:40

I sort of hope that individual schools can't be sued as they are just following DfE guidance

That is EXACTLY why they are following DfE guidance so very precisely, useless though they know it to be.

herecomesthsun · 05/12/2020 21:46

Do you think the D of E can be sued for their unsafe procedures that don't concord with international advice? And for their lies?

noblegiraffe · 05/12/2020 21:47

That is EXACTLY why they are following DfE guidance so very precisely, useless though they know it to be.

Yes, so does the duty of care move upwards?

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mrshoho · 05/12/2020 21:48

I read an article some time ago where an academy chain had sought legal advice and was reassuring its heads that they would not be liable.

Interesting though earlier in the year a group who successfully sued Uber were threatening to sue the government and local councils for failing to provide education during lockdown. The premises being that so many children had no access to suitable technology to access online learning. Maybe this is the real reason our government was so adamant that no rota system would be allowed. They must have realised their promises of laptops for all could not be met after all.

StaffAssociationRepresentative · 05/12/2020 21:49

@WhyNotMe40

Personally I think the decision makers at the DfE should spend at least one week every 5 years shadowing various average employees at various average schools. See what it is really like at the chalkface. As it is hugely apparent that they have fuck all idea of the realities.
Absolutely - I have been saying this for a while. It is all very well to be sat in a lovely office (or at home) making demands/decisions but unless you have done a stint at the coal face (in an ordinary non-selective state school) you can never really understand the impact of those decisions on the day to day running of a school in terms of impact on the workforce, budgets or students.
StaffAssociationRepresentative · 05/12/2020 21:51

@mrshoho - I had forgotten about the laptops - that's something else that has gone quite

noblegiraffe · 05/12/2020 21:54

What about the unfolding scandal about the National Tutoring Programme?

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BungleandGeorge · 05/12/2020 23:43

@noblegiraffe

On Radio 4 the other morning it was mentioned that some care homes were being more cautious than advised because they could be sued in the event of an outbreak, which is apparently something that can’t happen to the NHS.

Is there any legal protection for schools in a pandemic against inadequate measures leading to outbreaks?

If procedures aren’t followed the NHS can by sued just the same. Care homes run by private companies are much more sensitive to be sued, their premiums would increase which could potentially put them out of business. If they have covid outbreaks it may well also reduce their business with people choosing other homes.

Without decent broadband laptops aren’t much use. I think there was a realisation that many people don’t have broadband or are using their (not great) connection for work.