noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

[noblegiraffe]

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

No, you don’t, otherwise you’d be focusing on the actual data

Earlier in the thread I posted this from the Irish Times;

20 Nov -
"Staff rooms a key risk for spread of Covid-19 in schools, health officials warn."

www.irishtimes.com/news/education/staff-rooms-a-key-risk-for-spread-of-covid-19-in-schools-health-officials-warn-1.4414623

Dec 3 in the Irish Times;

"Fifteen teachers have had to self-isolate following a Covid-19 outbreak in a Co Limerick secondary school."

"A total of six teachers at the school have tested positive for coronavirus since last weekend, which led to a further nine teachers being deemed close contacts and having to self-isolate for 14 days."

"The school’s principal confirmed details of the outbreak to The Irish Times, but requested that the school not be named to protect the privacy of staff members."

"The school has not been notified of any student cases."

www.irishtimes.com/news/education/covid-19-15-teachers-forced-to-self-isolate-after-outbreak-in-limerick-school-1.4427010

Why are you expending your time and energy sniping at teachers and schools who are following the DfE official guidance @Clavinova? Why can't you just say that it is the guidance that needs to be changed rather than keep suggesting that teachers and schools should decide on their own rules and effectively go against government policy? Is this your usual level of thinking when it comes to government policy that they should be ignored?

mrshoho

But the government haven't changed their guidance and school heads have discretion to allow their staff to wear masks. If all the staff/or the majority of staff are in agreement that they want to wear masks then that is something you can influence.

Yawn

And just because 6 teachers in a school have tested positive whilst no notification of student cases does not actually mean that no students are infected as we know that it is very possible that students could well be asymptomatic or differing symptoms. Who is to say whether it was a student who brought it in to the school?

@mrshoho

Why are you expending your time and energy sniping at teachers and schools who are following the DfE official guidance *@Clavinova*? Why can't you just say that it is the guidance that needs to be changed rather than keep suggesting that teachers and schools should decide on their own rules and effectively go against government policy? Is this your usual level of thinking when it comes to government policy that they should be ignored?

Because she is a DFE lackey

StaffAssociationRepresentative
Yawn

And what have the unions said/done about masks?

The DfE is useless - like a rudderless ship. After the debacle of changing documents giving advice, mutant algorithms, etc the whole bloody lot need retraining.

Earlier in the thread I posted this from the Irish Times

Ignoring that they wear masks in classrooms in Ireland.

You could just ask teachers on the ground. “Hey noble, do you feel more at risk from colleagues or students?”

“Well, Clav, thanks for asking. I barely see my colleagues and when I do, it is from 2m+ (measured) in a well ventilated office, so while there is a risk there, and I would be fine with teachers being mandated to wear masks in offices, I feel that my more pressing concern of the moment is when I’m in a small, poorly ventilated classroom less than 2m from 30 kids in the most infected subset of the population for an hour, some of whom will likely have asymptomatic covid from the evidence of how covid manifests in children, none of whom are wearing masks and in a year group through which covid is running riot due to the DfE helpline stating that it’s only necessary to send home a handful of kids when one of them actually gets the right symptoms for a test’.

Suggesting that teachers spend their time lobbying local authorities to mandate masks for teachers is rather like suggesting they attempt to put out the California wildfires by lobbying for buckets of water.

@Clavinova

StaffAssociationRepresentative Yawn

And what have the unions said/done about masks?

My union Unison wants the guidance changed

'We believe that current government guidance does not go far enough to keep school staff and pupils safe, so we are calling for urgent measures to help protect them while they are in schools.

Whilst we are campaigning for a change in government guidance for schools we also need to protect staff and pupils in schools at this very moment by securing enhanced safety measures.

We therefore urge members to use our model letter to write to their local schools with a copy of the new joint unions’ checklist, seeking an urgent commitment to implement the measures UNISON and the joint unions are seeking. Please see our special schools FAQ below for more information on the measures we are seeking for special schools.'

To be fair, all Government departments have suffered the same Tory policy of cutting back the public sector to the point it can no longer function properly. So now we have a useless Government hoisted by its own petard.

From the Union checklist:

'Face coverings
• Schools should comply with Government requirements, by ensuring that staff and pupils in Year 7 or above wear face coverings in communal parts of the premises and on dedicated school transport and taking other measures to reduce mixing and maintain social distancing.

• Schools should in addition require face coverings to be worn at all times, including in the classroom, by staff and students in secondary schools and by all staff in primary schools & SEND settings.
• Schools should permit staff and pupils to wear face coverings anywhere in the premises in all schools and settings if they wish to do so.

• All schools should keep supplies of transparent face coverings.'

This is what they want in the government guidance re face masks.

My School is adamant guidelines say no PPE. So no PPE it is.

It is a disgrace that English schools do not mandate masks in high transmission areas.

@Clavinova

mrshoho

But the government haven't changed their guidance and school heads have discretion to allow their staff to wear masks. If all the staff/or the majority of staff are in agreement that they want to wear masks then that is something you can influence.

You just endlessly repeat that we should go against official government guidance, we should petition our employers and line managers to go against official government guidance, but don't ever suggest that the actual guidance should be changed???

Oh and heads don't actually have the discretion. Or it wouldn't say "masks to be avoided" but would say "masks at head's discretion".
Just because there are a few schools who are brave enough to go against the rules, doesn't mean all should. It means the rules need to be changed.

@christinarossetti19

I think I'd be a bit embarrassed to have never worked as a teacher and have no reason whatsoever to go into a state secondary school at the moment, have children in a private school and tell teachers who work in state secondaries that if they catch covid or have to SI it's their own fault, that actually their working environment is safe, that if it's not it's their own fault and they don't know what they're talking about.

But Clav is rocking it.

Now that's not fair - my laptop won't work if it's doused in the coffee I've just spat out.

@christinarossetti19

I think I'd be a bit embarrassed to have never worked as a teacher and have no reason whatsoever to go into a state secondary school at the moment, have children in a private school and tell teachers who work in state secondaries that if they catch covid or have to SI it's their own fault, that actually their working environment is safe, that if it's not it's their own fault and they don't know what they're talking about.

But Clav is rocking it.

Yes, there’s a word for that. Shameless.

Shameless, smug and offensive.

It's a really vile stance to take and a wholly inappropriate platform to take it on.

Shameless, smug and offensive

Sorry - but I genuinely believe that school staff could better protect themselves and others by wearing masks - even if pupils do not.

Local level first in Scotland -

October -
"Midlothian teachers are now also being told to wear face masks in classrooms - though this has not yet been made mandatory by the Scottish Governement."

"A spokesperson for Midlothian Council confirmed that staff are being encouraged to wear face coverings in classrooms and said a number of other local authorities are taking similar action."

"A Midlothian Council spokeswoman said: “Like a number of other local authorities, we’ve advised staff the wearing of face coverings should now be the norm in schools."

"They will be compulsory when moving around school corridors but also in areas such as staff rooms as per Scottish Government guidance."

www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/midlothian-teachers-now-told-wear-19096637

Why, in your opinion, Clav is the DfE not recommending this in England?

are state schools up to scratch yet?
but some of you infecting each other.

Clavinova

How much of this is because you feel the need to defend your DH who is high up in education?

How he lives with the guilt of doing such a piss poor job is beyond me.

How much of this is because you feel the need to defend your DH who is high up in education?

I didn't say which sector he works in.

Has he changed jobs since he used to take you to all those teacher award ceremonies?

Has he changed jobs since he used to take you to all those teacher award ceremonies?