noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

[noblegiraffe]

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

Clav is really proving my point about some posters treating a serious health and safety issue during a pandemic as a bit of a game to amuse themselves on a grey Saturday afternoon.

Like arguing with a Y9 as others say, although also strong shades of arguing with a flat-earther.

"The earth is flat. Look I can see it out of my window."
"Your perspective is limited, as is all of ours, we know that the earth is spherical cos science."
"I've just seen something on the internet that shows it's flat."
"Possibly, although we know that if you put all perspectives on the earth together and look at it as a whole, it's flat rather than spherical."
"But I can see that it's flat just by looking out of my window."

Ad infinitim.

In the context of flat earthers reflecting DfE policy.

Yes, @Clavinova pretending it’s all about masks and those lazy, useless teachers not wearing them through sheer beligerence.

Sorry "It's spherical rather than flat" that should say.

Walkaround
Yes, Clavinova pretending it’s all about masks and those lazy, useless teachers not wearing them through sheer beligerence.

It seems a relatively easy concession you could lobby for at a local level (school head/local authority) if not through the unions. Quite clearly you would be protecting other members of staff and pupils by wearing a mask in the classroom and the staffroom.

It seems a relatively easy concession you could lobby for at a local level

Indeed, let’s think small, and only of ourselves.

And the government would be protecting everyone in schools if they implemented mandatory mask for all pupils and teachers in secondary schools at a policy level.

Clav is really proving my point about some posters treating a serious health and safety issue during a pandemic as a bit of a game to amuse themselves on a grey Saturday afternoon.

I genuinely believe that school staff are infecting pupils and each other - less clear about children being responsible for driving infection, particularly in primary schools.

Given that Clav is so in favour of schools working at a local level to improve safety in their own communities against DfE guidance, she must be appalled that the DfE stepped in to overrule schools wanting to move to remote learning for the last week of term to protect families.

@Clavinova - why would you merely lobby at local level on a major, national public health issue? Either there is evidence masks work or there isn’t. School safety is not a little local issue.

Given that Clav is so in favour of schools working at a local level to improve safety in their own communities against DfE guidance, she must be appalled that the DfE stepped in to overrule schools wanting to move to remote learning for the last week of term to protect families.

Excellent remote learning from my dcs' private school from March to July - are state schools up to scratch yet? I don't agree with some teachers on here suggesting a cleaning day midweek with blended learning.

I genuinely believe that school staff are infecting pupils and each other - less clear about children being responsible for driving infection

Based on your extensive classroom pandemic experience? Because it doesn’t tally with mine.

It is utterly bizarre to assume that a teen is at more risk from a single teacher at the front of the class, 2m away (natch) than they are from their peers, the most infected subset of the population who they are crammed up against in classrooms without masks and who they congregate in large groups with in unstructured time. Groups that would be illegal elsewhere and provoke complaints when the normal population see them at it.

Either there is evidence masks work or there isn’t.

And why narrow the focus down to the issue of teachers wearing masks and ignore the stuff on kids wearing masks, ventilation and testing?

It’s because it’s the only thing she can even attempt to blame teachers for.

Excellent remote learning from my dcs' private school from March to July - are state schools up to scratch yet? I don't agree with some teachers on here suggesting a cleaning day midweek with blended learning.

Deflection again.

Take your teacher-goading elsewhere. It’s clear you don’t give a shit about illness and death in schools especially when it’s involving teachers, but you don’t have to be so obvious about it.

Clavinova - why would you merely lobby at local level on a major, national public health issue?

Not 'merely' - but you haven't got very far with your lobbying, and apparently you (and all your colleagues) are keen to wear masks - something you might be able to implement at a local level next week - thereby making your school/s safer.

@Clavinova

Given that Clav is so in favour of schools working at a local level to improve safety in their own communities against DfE guidance, she must be appalled that the DfE stepped in to overrule schools wanting to move to remote learning for the last week of term to protect families.

Excellent remote learning from my dcs' private school from March to July - are state schools up to scratch yet? I don't agree with some teachers on here suggesting a cleaning day midweek with blended learning.

@Clavinova - ah, hurrah, now you not only want teachers wearing masks in classrooms, you want state schools to get more funding per pupil than your children’s private school, so as to enable them to get access to the same sort of resources from the school end and ensure all their families are equally well resourced and connected at home. You shoukd lobby the DfE.

@noblegiraffe

activities were on as normal

Not in lockdown. Unless it was part of wraparound childcare, they had to move to zoom again.

My figures were relating to the drop in infection rates in primary kids over second lockdown.

Activities were on as normal until the 2nd so would be reflected in figures for the first 2 weeks of lockdown. Childcare all through. I just think it points towards younger kids being mainly infected by household members rather than spreading it between themselves at school/ activities.

I suspect the difference in the decline in infection between primary and secondary ages is down to their different behaviours.
Round here, the parks and recreation grounds have been heaving with older secondary kids (and a few of their younger schoolmates) socialising in groups from when they get out of school until late in the evening, huddling together, hugging, play fighting and generally being teenagers. The recent colder weather seems to have discouraged them, but some hardy souls are still out there, presumably because smoking weed sitting on a bench in the park is less risky than doing so at home.
Primary kids are not in evidence, presumably they are at home with parents.

Take your teacher-goading elsewhere. It’s clear you don’t give a shit about illness and death in schools especially when it’s involving teachers

I do - but some of you infecting each other.

If teachers are infecting each other masks will help. Masks for students will also help. I think most people are saying all in secondary schools should be wearing them

I do - but some of you infecting each other.

No, you don’t, otherwise you’d be focusing on the actual data and the bigger picture rather than, as I said, picking on the one issue you think you can bash teachers for.

It is actually disgusting behaviour, and presumably done from a position of relative safety.

I think most people are saying all in secondary schools should be wearing them

Exactly.

" are state schools up to scratch yet?"

Unfortunately, no partly because all the tech support and laptops that the government promised didn't materialise.

I think I'd be a bit embarrassed to have never worked as a teacher and have no reason whatsoever to go into a state secondary school at the moment, have children in a private school and tell teachers who work in state secondaries that if they catch covid or have to SI it's their own fault, that actually their working environment is safe, that if it's not it's their own fault and they don't know what they're talking about.

But Clav is rocking it.

My school is huge. The 6 teachers who have had positive test never go anywhere near each other. I honestly think you think we all go around in one big mask free huddle.

Your information about transmission amongst young people is - as ever- rather out of date. It is widely accepted now that they transmit.