Horrified that people still don't get it

[PoppingCandies]

And I say this as someone who has essential hospital care delayed. But if hospital beds in ICU are full of patients with coronavirus, how do you expect hoz

We're not talking about the shit hitting the fan though are we? We're talking about someone wanting to go for a pint, or whatever

The rich had their ski trips They had their Cheltenham (whats the betting there is a lockdown to save Cheltenham 2021) They had their holidays in the summer. As someone who rents, who has done these lockdowns in a tiny flat who hasnt been abroad since the 80s, does not go to pubs or restaurants I want my family Christmas.

This will only be 3 households and six people at MOST.

Obvs if anyone tested positive for Covid this would all be off. But believe me the way it looks from here is that its ppl lower down the socio economic scale expected to give up the little they do have.
Sick of it!

Let's not forget that they messed up testing, track and trace and failed to use the summer/last lockdown to plan. Putting your rich mates (Dido) in charge of public health interventions was never going to work

THIS. They are expecting and forcing the public to give up their freedoms while not even willing to give up their ideology.

My parents are 84 It may be they havent got many Christmases left. DM needs help with the cooking as she struggles. Especially to lift a turkey. DF isnt great on his feet either.

THIS thread is interesting to reread a year on................particularly page 13

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3764459-Boris-Johnson-refuses-to-look-at-photo-of-child-on-hospital-floor

@Smartiepants79

I’m always surprised that others are shocked by people primarily acting in their own interests. We have a biological imperative to ensure our own and our families well being above the needs of all others. The dictates of complex societies can cause us to be more empathetic and even to make sacrifices for others/strangers but we will always be ultimately selfish beings. In the end when the shit hits the fan we will always put the needs of ourselves and those dearest to us first.

But it's not about people being selfish and putting their own families needs above their own, it's people not grasping that overfull hospitals could affect them or their family if they need minor or acute care via their hospital, gp, dentist.

The longer it takes for the R number to go down, the longer the lockdown goes on, the greater the economic fallout, which effects us all.

Unfortunately unless it affects them it dont matter. We live in a society of me me me

@Ddot

Unfortunately unless it affects them it dont matter. We live in a society of me me me

I could say the same about those that think it is ok for people to be refused treatment or have it delayed.

Well it's not ok! I foolishly thought covid would bring out the best in people but it hasn't. People still refusing to wear masks still think it's funny to crowd people and watch them squirm. I despair I really do. As for those missing treatments due to covid, its terrible and heart breaking.

I am very concerned that people are not aware of the fact that children can be seriously ill with Covid 19. The government is giving wrong information on children and young people. People in their early thirties are also getting severe joint problems. I looked into the when a friend's extremely healthy, gym going 31 year old son got osteoarthritis.
This is an article about long term affects on children.
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/09/children-coronavirus-death-kawasaki

I’m always surprised that others are shocked by people primarily acting in their own interests. We have a biological imperative to ensure our own and our families well being above the needs of all others.
The dictates of complex societies can cause us to be more empathetic and even to make sacrifices for others/strangers but we will always be ultimately selfish beings.
In the end when the shit hits the fan we will always put the needs of ourselves and those dearest to us first.
I feel similarly humans (and other animals) are selfish in some ways as a means for survival.
The pandemic has also brought out more of a sense of community in places with people looking out for more vulnerable or running errands for people who are unable to leave the house but people would still do this in addition to putting their own family first. I donate to the food bank and the hygeine bank but I wouldnt if it meant starving my own children or letting my DD go without san pro!
A pp a few weeks ago was berated and labelled selfish for considering going back to work because she had waited so long for a test result for her child (who was now quite well). She had taken a week off and was unsure if she could afford to take more time off if the test was likely to be negative.Obviously the right thing to do would be to wait, but this was someone concerned about earning money to feed their family.

@Fizbosshoes

*I’m always surprised that others are shocked by people primarily acting in their own interests. We have a biological imperative to ensure our own and our families well being above the needs of all others. The dictates of complex societies can cause us to be more empathetic and even to make sacrifices for others/strangers but we will always be ultimately selfish beings. In the end when the shit hits the fan we will always put the needs of ourselves and those dearest to us first.* I feel similarly humans (and other animals) are selfish in some ways as a means for survival. The pandemic has also brought out more of a sense of community in places with people looking out for more vulnerable or running errands for people who are unable to leave the house but people would still do this in addition to putting their own family first. I donate to the food bank and the hygeine bank but I wouldnt if it meant starving my own children or letting my DD go without san pro! A pp a few weeks ago was berated and labelled selfish for considering going back to work because she had waited so long for a test result for her child (who was now quite well). She had taken a week off and was unsure if she could afford to take more time off if the test was likely to be negative.Obviously the right thing to do would be to wait, but this was someone concerned about earning money to feed their family.

@Fizbosshoes You are absolutely correct humans are selfish and prioritise their own needs amd their family’s needs before the needs of others. We totally get that. However, it’s one thing to do what comes naturally to humans and another to be stupid and not think about the long term impact from their decisions. Now the PP you mentioned who wanted to go back to work as her DC was waiting for a test, but it was taking too long. If she sends her kid back without getting the test and returns to work and it turns out her kid did indeed have the virus and other kids get it, then all that will happen is her kid will be off again as soon as another child tests positive in the class. This time it will be for the 14 days so the PP will now be in a much worse situation.

My view on getting together for Christmas this year is best not to. I think I would rather be sure of future Christmasses then go for family meeting up and staying over this year and possibly having infections passed around. Is it worth the risk? I don't think it is. Does anyone else think this?

@MercyBooth

Let's not forget that they messed up testing, track and trace and failed to use the summer/last lockdown to plan. Putting your rich mates (Dido) in charge of public health interventions was never going to work

THIS. They are expecting and forcing the public to give up their freedoms while not even willing to give up their ideology.

Ok.

I have plenty of gripes with this government and it’s handling of the pandemic but I still fail to see how not following restrictions benefits me or my family at all.

Yes they fucked up track and trace, yes they’ve dithered in moments that required decisive and strong leadership, let’s not even touch how they’ve operated regarding issues outside covid but how does ignoring restrictions or calling for restrictions to be lifted because they’ve shown themselves up as monumental tests help the situation? Does that just not put everyone at more risk.

Our government is definitely not special, it’s fairly easy to look around the world and see what the consensus is on tackling this pandemic and examples of exactly how that’s been achieved so why ignore it just because we have a shower of clowns in the cabinet? If boris told me it was nighttime I’d look out the window to check but would concede his point if it was actually nighttime.

Fact is the country needs a central leadership, pockets of rebels who think they know better with no information inspire less confidence than a clown who at least has access to reams of information, advisors and are ultimately answerable for the consequences of their actions.

What consequences are there for the ripples of social media rebel rousers? If it all goes tits up and we all suffer whose answerable for that? It’s easy to say who’s wrong and what should be done instead when you have zero responsibility for the consequences.

I remember seeing an article about Italy when this all started. A large family had sat down to lunch together. At the time the story came out only two family members were left alive and those two were extremely ill. My family are very annoying at times but I love them all dearly. How do you live knowing you survived and possibly killed your loved ones.

The people who don’t get it as those who force schools to open. That’s a major cause of the 2nd wave. 25-30 cases in our school.

My family are very annoying at times but I love them all dearly. How do you live knowing you survived and possibly killed your loved ones.

No one "killed their loved ones" FFS.

HesterShaw1
If you decide to ignore the rules and have a family gathering, you are really telling me you wouldnt feel guilty if your family got ill due to your selfish stupidity. If thats the case you need therapy dear

HesterShaw1
Your attitude is why we are one of the worst hit country's

I was, waiting for a response but your not worth arguing with, read the thread title!

@Ddot

HesterShaw1 If you decide to ignore the rules and have a family gathering, you are really telling me you wouldnt feel guilty if your family got ill due to your selfish stupidity. If thats the case you need therapy dear

@Ddot When did I say I was going to ignore the rules and have a family gathering?

(hint - I didn't)

And I do like the use of the work "dear" in order to cleverly try and and patronise me. Good work.

PS it's "countries"

I had no idea all the nightingale hospitals were in use, must be an awful disease.
At least this means the hospitals will be empty, for other emergencies.
Stop listening to bloody propaganda and maybe you'd "get it"

HesterShaw1
Look at what you wrote in response to a family dying oh and yes I do know I can't spell.

This is what I put (and yes I am aware of what I wrote)

No one "killed their loved ones" FFS

What I am taking issue with is the assertion that someone who inadvertently passes on a highly infectious pathogen is now branded a killer. A murderer.

I was attempting - probably in vain - to try and be a little bit objective and rational.

It's the virus which is doing the killing. It makes me deeply uneasy when people who pass on something they don't actually know they have are branded "killers". Where does this end?

Yes we should all take precautions, one of them being not having big family parties at Christmas this year. But I'm not going to label some poor Italian a killer because his/her family members died of the virus. Forgive me if I don't join in the online fucking hysteria and the string 'em up mentality.

I’ve world in the NHS for 13 years. Winter is always bad, no beds, lots of patients.

This is not like any normal winter: ITU is full as is the extra ITU capacity. High care is full, with double usual capacity. In a normal winter we don’t need to expand ITU or high care.

Before this year I have never:
Had husband and wives/brothers/father and sons die of the same illness within days of each other.
Had relatives saying goodbye to their relatives over FaceTime
Sent so many under 60, fit patients to ITU knowing the prognosis was about 30%. Yes they may have had ‘underlying condition’ like high blood pressure or were overweight but they had another 20/30 YEARS life left.

Staff are broken and there is little light at the end of the tunnel.

I have to visit my mother, I am terrified I will infect her and yes kill her but I take as many precautions as I can. If I did unintentionally hurt her, I would probably blame myself. Survivor guilt. Strictly speaking i am not to blame its the virus but I honestly dont think I could deal. Thats what I meant, not that the family member was a killer but you would feel that way. Well I would. Hopefully I won't need to know first hand.