Horrified that people still don't get it

[PoppingCandies]

And I say this as someone who has essential hospital care delayed. But if hospital beds in ICU are full of patients with coronavirus, how do you expect hoz

@ineedsun

In the end when the shit hits the fan we will always put the needs of ourselves and those dearest to us first.

We're not talking about the shit hitting the fan though are we? We're talking about someone wanting to go for a pint, or whatever

I would say a worldwide pandemic is shit hitting the fan.

Why do you think it's just about the pub ffs? It's not and you know it's not but it's a brilliant way to minimise people's problems when you can't be arsed trying to understand them.

Promote Corona at all costs and then in a year or so they'll all be sat there wondering why there's such a huge increase in other things - and where will the hospital beds come from then?

There’s a horrifying backlog. I think a lot of people just have no idea of what’s coming in terms of the consequences of covid/lockdown. Horrific backlog of services, unnecessary deaths from delayed treatment, families on the street when the amnesty on evictions ends, mass redundancies ones furlough ends... leaving people sick with covid at home to ensure there are enough beds for other services, rather than lockdown, is inhuman and unpalatable and unimaginable... but so is what we are doing now. There are no easy answers here. Any option incurs unacceptable human suffering.

I’m actually someone who supports lockdown as the lesser of two evils but I really can’t agree with the OP that it’s simple and horrifying that people don’t automatically think lockdown is the only way.

^I don't think we're any more individualistic than any other society.

Self care matters...

I get it. But I'd really like...

I'm not refusing to put on my own mental health oxygen that "Cynthia" at 8 chains of separation doesn't end up in ITU critically ill...^

I don't think we are more individualistic but im going to start three I paragraphs with "I" sentences about how my needs are more important than what society needs to deal with a pandemic.

I'd laugh if it wasnt so indicative of the problem.

Society's that are acting as societies have 100% or close enough compliance on masks. They locked down hard and quick without moaning about civil liberties. And people rights to do weren't more important than stopping the spread of the disease.

There's advantage to living in an individualistic society. But not during a pandemic.

The thing is as well for people in their 20s/30s/40s, they are far more at risk of losing their jobs/homes/have their mental health trashed/their children's education suffer- this is a far bigger risk to them than virus itself. Also when it's clear people in this age group may not ever be vaccinated, how long do you think people are going to continue having their lives curtailed for? People are inevitably going to think that they'll always be at risk from it so may as well just get on with things.

I am someone who is directly affected by delayed treatment as I said in my OP. I don't need to watch a TV show I am living it

I am very sorry your treatment has been delayed and I hope it does not affect the outcome or your prognosis. I cannot agree people who don’t want to lose their own lives, or those of loved ones, to save strangers are being unreasonable though.

People are fed up OP and most of them now realise that neither they nor their families are at very much risk at all. Many people still know no one who has been diagnosed with coronavirus. I know several who believe they had it back in March/April and no one was ill for more than a few days and they quickly recovered. When a vaccine is finally available it won't be given to anyone to under 50 unless they have underlying conditions, so at the moment we're all being told 'Stay at home!' and our DC are being sent home for 14 days at a time if one classmate tests positive, yet once the old and the vulnerable get vaccinated we'll all be told to crack on and it doesn't matter if we get it.

The government's response has ranged from the draconian (the 3-month lockdown from March-June), to lackadaisical (Eat out to help out and travel corridors open over the summer). Now we're all expected to be in panic mode again, but most of us are fed up. We've all assessed our personal risk and which behaviours to avoid and we're going ahead. I'm not defending people people going to raves or house parties, but we're not programmed to be in a high state of alert for months - we adjust and we get on with life and for most people their way of coping with this crisis is to live as much of their life as normally as they can, because anything else is impractical and unbearable.

I'm talking about people who don't understand why hospitals have had to delay treatment for other patients not specifically about lockdown.

@AlwaysLatte

People are thick. Look at how many voted for Trump.

I don't think people are thick as such, just poorly educated. The majority of Trump's base comes from more rural areas and education in the US is substandard in many of those areas. Education generally in the US has been bad for decades and there is a growing anti science, anti intellectual bias in the country as a whole.

I feel quite strongly that two things should be taught in schools now - what a good, non toxic relationship looks like and how to recognise abuse and critical thinking. Both are badly needed.

@genegenie

For many people I see on various Facebook groups that's exactly what it's about. Having their freedoms restricted, not being able to see their mates etc

Of course a global pandemic is the shit hitting the fan, that's why the responses are so serious. Trevor and Joan being pissed off because they're told that that they can't go to the pub is not the shit hitting the fan.

It is all well and good saying this, but when it is someone known to you that has died, and delay in treatment due to covid was a likely factor then it offers no comfort. A 28 year old mother is dead, and not of covid. So I might get it but I will never accept it.

Wasn;t just the media, although the reporting mistakes they made were criminal. The London Mayor told people not to use public transport except for essential journeys. Police were handed out fines for people walking in parks. Some politicians decided 30 minutes of exercise was enough. But, yes, media too. The BBC decided that only essential businesses could stay open which led to lots of businesses closing that really didn't need to, which then re-opened a few weeks later when they realised they never needed to close in the first place.

@FractionalGains

I am someone who is directly affected by delayed treatment as I said in my OP. I don't need to watch a TV show I am living it

I am very sorry your treatment has been delayed and I hope it does not affect the outcome or your prognosis. I cannot agree people who don’t want to lose their own lives, or those of loved ones, to save strangers are being unreasonable though.

They are not unreasonable to want that. Hell I want that for myself and for my children. But it is not true to say that the NHS only cares about coronavirus everyone be damned. That was the point I was trying to make. People aren't seeing that when cases are high in the general population the NHS doesn't have many choices.

My dad was recently admitted to ICU as an emergency(not covid), he literally arrived at the hospital in the ambulance with just minutes to spare and was unbelievably lucky to survive an acute condition that this particular hospital had never had a patient survive before. At the debrief with the consultants afterwards, my mum was told that not only was he lucky to survive such minuscule odds, but that had it happened earlier in the year, during the first peak, there wouldn't have been space here for him and he'd have died in the ambulance on the way to a hospital further afield.

Now my parents, and I posted about this back in March, had not been ones to take covid seriously. They are now, after realising exactly why suppressing the outbreak is vital to the make sure that hospitals can actually treat their patients.

Many people still know no one who has been diagnosed with coronavirus. I know several who believe they had it back in March/April and no one was ill for more than a few days and they quickly recovered.

Then you, and they, are lucky.

You do know that stuff exists outside your own experience?

I've never been to Alaska but I'm pretty sure it is real.

[quote ineedsun]@genegenie

For many people I see on various Facebook groups that's exactly what it's about. Having their freedoms restricted, not being able to see their mates etc

Of course a global pandemic is the shit hitting the fan, that's why the responses are so serious. Trevor and Joan being pissed off because they're told that that they can't go to the pub is not the shit hitting the fan. [/quote]
Ah yes, because various Facebook groups really reflect the population as a whole, don't they?

Have you ever considered it is job losses, home losses, massive lack of education for children, hunger, poverty, loneliness, depression, anxiety and a myriad of other mental health issues that most people are worried about?
But also, I think its frankly disgusting that your judging people for wanting to see their friends. A completely natural thing to want, when it's always been something you can freely do. If you can happily live within your nuclear family and not miss other for nigh on a year then bully for you. Most people can't.

The NHS would have more choice if it had been funded properly for the last god knows how many years, no?

@PoppingCandies

I'm talking about people who don't understand why hospitals have had to delay treatment for other patients not specifically about lockdown.

But some treatments etc didn't have to be cancelled - there was a massive knee jerk reaction where entire departments were closed without good reason - the NHS managers just panicked and closed things down even though they had the staff, and there were entire wards, even some buildings basically moth balled for months.

A lot of hospital staff are self isolating.

Without taking the staffing levels into account, the ability of hospitals to cope with one to one nursing can't be measured.

Critical, high dependency and itu patients need high nursing levels.

@TheGreatWave

It is all well and good saying this, but when it is someone known to you that has died, and delay in treatment due to covid was a likely factor then it offers no comfort. A 28 year old mother is dead, and not of covid. So I might get it but I will never accept it.

No I understand. I am trying very hard and not always succeeding to accept my own diagnosis and delay in treatment.

@BogRollBOGOF

I don't think we're any more individualistic than any other society.

Self care matters. If I break my mental health by prolonged neglect of my social needs who puts me right? Oh yes I'll be contacting my NHS GP for anti-depressants. #SaveTheNHS.

I'm not having wild parties. Had one cluster of people in my home once, legally, within the rules, windows open to hold a youth group planning meeting. But I am overlooking surplus children on a walk because while it falls foul of the law, it is less morally wrong than leaving one at home to not exceed an arbitary number dreamed up by a bunch of men who don't spend much time parenting their offspring.

I get it. But I'd really like my DCs to see their family at Christmas for the first or second time in 2020. Some relatives they haven't seen in over a year now and it could be 18m- 2years by the time travel arrangements are practical.

I'm not refusing to put on my own mental health oxygen mask so that "Cynthia" at 8 chains of separation doesn't end up in ITU critically ill when any infection over this winter was likely to overwhelm her immune system. Viruses spread. We didn't have this outcry in 2018 when there were 50 000 excess deaths caused by a bad flu season and poorly matched flu vaccine.

It's at best pointless moralising over this, and potentially harmful when catching a virus is seen as a stigma and encourages people to cover up if they are mildly ill.

It's been dragging on for 8 months now with no end in sight. People have to live sensibly about it.

There were 28,000 deaths caused by flu in the worst of the past five years (and it doesn't cause the equivalent of long COVID in 1 in 5 people or psychiatric disorders in 1 in 10 people like COViD does).

That's not to totally negate your point however facts matter.

@Hazelnutlatteplease

People don't get it because they dont want to get it because then they might have to recognise that the impact of their lives is real and necessary.

Plus we are very individualistic in this country. Subjecting individual needs and freedoms to the needs of the community as a whole does not come naturally. If we choose not to get it we don't have to recognise our inherent selfishness

I think this is exactly what is happening, combined with an element of it won't happen to me.

I have a new colleague this week and she's refusing to socially distance in the work place which is seriously pissing me off as I have no choice but to work with her. We have a small area which only has one entrance and when two people are in there you are less than a metre apart and the first one in can't get out, she keeps on coming in when I am working in there.

Have you ever considered it is job losses, home losses, massive lack of education for children, hunger, poverty, loneliness, depression, anxiety and a myriad of other mental health issues that most people are worried about?

Of course I get all that, but largely it's not those people who are being dicks, they're continuing to take this seriously and the community are supporting those people, or certainly are around here.

But also, I think its frankly disgusting that your judging people for wanting to see their friends. A completely natural thing to want, when it's always been something you can freely do. If you can happily live within your nuclear family and not miss other for nigh on a year then bully for you. Most people can't.

What a bizarre assumption. I miss my family, my kids, grandkids, parents etc immensely, I could cry with it, but it is possible to miss them and have an awareness of the importance of the bigger picture. My desire to see them doesn't trump the rights of people to be safe and well.

@wheresmymojo

1 in 5 get long covid? Can you define long covid?

And 1 in 1o get a psychiatric disorder? Again, definition of that please.

People get it , they just don't give a shit.

I'm so sick of people saying that their mental health is suffering because they can't do their hobby , or meet a friend for a drink etc. Some of these people are telling the truth , yes , others are just using this as a line because it allows them to carry on as they please.

@ineedsun

Have you ever considered it is job losses, home losses, massive lack of education for children, hunger, poverty, loneliness, depression, anxiety and a myriad of other mental health issues that most people are worried about?

Of course I get all that, but largely it's not those people who are being dicks, they're continuing to take this seriously and the community are supporting those people, or certainly are around here.

But also, I think its frankly disgusting that your judging people for wanting to see their friends. A completely natural thing to want, when it's always been something you can freely do. If you can happily live within your nuclear family and not miss other for nigh on a year then bully for you. Most people can't.

What a bizarre assumption. I miss my family, my kids, grandkids, parents etc immensely, I could cry with it, but it is possible to miss them and have an awareness of the importance of the bigger picture. My desire to see them doesn't trump the rights of people to be safe and well.

Oh so you can understand why people aren't happy then you just chose to minimise it to be unhappiness about closed pubs? I see.

Your desire to see your family doesn't trump the rights of people to be safe and well? It'll never be safe. You could have inadvertently passed on loads of viruses over the years. We all could. You're deluded if you think when this is over it's gonna be "safe" - people will just die of different preventable conditions. Like they always have done.