Horrified that people still don't get it

[PoppingCandies]

And I say this as someone who has essential hospital care delayed. But if hospital beds in ICU are full of patients with coronavirus, how do you expect hoz

Just looked at that ‘study’. Anxiety and depression caused by lockdown/worry than a symptom of of Covid. Dementia by old age.

For 5.8% this was a first diagnosis. So for 94.2% they have had previous mental health problems.

From the above:
It may be that some people were already developing dementia and it wasn't recognized until the patients saw a doctor for their COVID-19 symptoms.

‘We're seeing a lot of anxiety, a lot of fear, a lot of sadness, a lot of sense of isolation.’

@tortoiseshell1985

It's not simply post viral fatigue. Long COVID has shown much more fundamental damage to organs and neurology than the kind of post viral fatigue linked to influenza.

Define illness though.

Many people have post viral syndrome and still work because it's a scale, isn't it?

Long covid' makes it sound like one thing, always the same for everyone. It's not.

Who doesn’t get it?

@TrustTheGeneGenie

I think it's actually a bit gross the way we treat older people as though they don't matter

Yes I mean locking them away from family against their will is really kind in comparison isn't it.

1 in 3 people who die of COVID have zero underlying health conditions so they're not the frail, 'clinging on to life by a thread' people you seem to have conjured up in your head

What's the average age of those people? Please don't present it as healthy 30 something's when it's more likely to be 80 something's who wouldn't fair to well with any other virus either.

I will come back with stats but why does age matter?

A) How many healthy people do you know that have had flu?

B) How many healthy people do you know that have died with flu?

I would image a) is almost every single person you know and b) is no-one because it's very rare to die of flu with zero underlying health conditions.

I have just come out of hospital. I am well placed to tell that they are buckling under the strain of one emergency after another. We do not live in a busy place, or one of high infection.

It appeared to me during the seven hours in A&E that all of the patients coming in were severely ill or very ill, and needed urgent help. There were no time wasters, and most people like me were stranded in A&E as they tried to find beds on wards and needing urgent surgery. I really feel for all of the staff, it was like a zoo and many were struggling to do the basics for patients.

It is impossible to get a doctors appointment, that is putting the hospitals under huge strain. 10 days for a phone call is the average here, and a further 10 days to see them in person. My condition meant that I ended up in A&E long before an appointment, and I am pretty angry that the GP service here is non existent. Goodness only knows what is happening to people with cancer/serious heart problems.

I am very worried about the winter.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

I think it's actually a bit gross the way we treat older people as though they don't matter

Yes I mean locking them away from family against their will is really kind in comparison isn't it.

1 in 3 people who die of COVID have zero underlying health conditions so they're not the frail, 'clinging on to life by a thread' people you seem to have conjured up in your head

What's the average age of those people? Please don't present it as healthy 30 something's when it's more likely to be 80 something's who wouldn't fair to well with any other virus either.

It's funny that you demand sources for everything I say but seem to be happy to make any old assertion without providing sources of your own

And...before I get accused of not giving a shit about anything but COVID both me and my husband have been out of work since March due to COVID and are now facing bankruptcy so I'm well aware of the wider impacts

Why does age matter? Are you joking or?

I actually don't know anyone who's had flu. I don't therefore know anyone who's died from it either.

I don't think I need to provide a source that the vast majority of people die are not healthy 30 year olds.

@amicissimma

I'm rather shocked at people don't seem to get that if we shut down the economy and lose hundreds of thousands of jobs, and shut the schools so parents can't work and we lose more hundreds of thousands of jobs, there will hardly be any taxes to pay for any hospitals, to treat people with Covid or anything else. Never mind free meals for school children, or even high quality education. Or benefits for several million unemployed.

And there seem to be a lot of people who think that are huge numbers of wealthy people who are just waiting to pay eye-watering amounts of tax, or that we can grab a larger share of the tax of large corporations from other countries to pay for this. And some don't realise how much interest we are already committed to paying on what we have borrowed so far.

It will become clear, but probably after the Covid epidemic has just died out.

We absolutely do understand this.

That's one of the bloody reasons that if we are in a lockdown it needs to be followed.

When people don't follow the rules they are basically kicking every local business that has closed and everyone like me, on the brink of bankruptcy, in the teeth.

Because a lockdown with a significant minority not following the rules is the worst of both worlds.

All the economic impact, none of the public health benefits.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Anxiety and depression? Hardly surprising but it's probably not directly caused by Covid 19 the illness is it? Normal to feel that way when you've been told something is so dangerous and then you get it, no? The way they present it makes it sound so much worse.

The mechanism isn't yet known.

We do however know that COVID impacts neurology. It is a multi-organ disease, not a respiratory disease.

I don't have any reason to believe that 1 in 5 get anxiety or depression after the flu...do you?

If so, source?

I don't think the costs of lockdown are being taken on board. Economically, socially, psychologically.

But in time it will hit us like a brick shithouse.

@BloomShine

Just looked at that ‘study’. Anxiety and depression caused by lockdown/worry than a symptom of of Covid. Dementia by old age.

For 5.8% this was a first diagnosis. So for 94.2% they have had previous mental health problems.

From the above:
It may be that some people were already developing dementia and it wasn't recognized until the patients saw a doctor for their COVID-19 symptoms.

‘We're seeing a lot of anxiety, a lot of fear, a lot of sadness, a lot of sense of isolation.’

Erm, no.

Because they compared to a group of people of the same age who would have the same lockdown / age related reasons to have anxiety or dementia.

I think you need to read the study again.

What you are doing is called 'confirmation bias'.

You are interpreting the facts to suit what you want to believe rather than what the actual facts state.

The flu hasn't been overjoyed as a disease that will absolutely kill you if you get it. Covid has.

It's not confirmation bias it's common sense.

^They locked down hard and quick without moaning about civil liberties.*

Someone needs to "moan" about them, and keep moaning about them. Because at some point, the pandemic will be over.^

There was outcry about the removal of the legal imperative behind EHCP plans. "The govenment is removing the rights of SEN children, tgeyll never gwt thise righrs back. And yet 5 months later legal support was reinstated. The Panademic isnt even over and yet as soon as the immediate need for the suspension was the legal support was reinstated without any campaigning.

What hasnt been removed is the Nice guidelines that "depriotised" for intensive care anyone of any age with any kind of preexisting conditions in a crisis management situation.

Which is why we must act as a society. Because we will stop treating people if we don't.

I didn't mean overjoyed I meant over hyped

Long covid isn't post viral fatigue which is overhyped.

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3981

Having had both, I know this personally but research, young as it is because of the nature of the timeline, is starting to confirm this.

Back to the OP, I think the vast majority of people DO get it.

It's just a question of deciding whether or not, for them, the benefits outweigh the sacrifices being demanded of them.

And when I say "for them", that doesn't mean whether or not they can go to the pub or not .

Kazzyhoward - But some treatments etc didn't have to be cancelled - there was a massive knee jerk reaction where entire departments were closed without good reason - the NHS managers just panicked and closed things down even though they had the staff, and there were entire wards, even some buildings basically moth balled for months.

It wasn't NHS managers' fault. The government told them to empty the hospitals.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-hospital-discharge-service-requirements

Note that this is not 'guidance' but 'requirements' - hospitals had no choice.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Why does age matter? Are you joking or?

I actually don't know anyone who's had flu. I don't therefore know anyone who's died from it either.

You don't know anyone who has had the flu?

Well clearly you're an absolute bullshitter then and I won't respond to any further comments.

Millions of people get the flu every year. Average deaths over 5 years = 17,000 per annum at an IFR of 0.1% so do your maths and figure out how many get the flu each year!

Not having the flu at least once or twice by 40 or so years old is fairly rare so the chances that you don't know anyone who has had the flu are minuscule unless you are a hermit.

So basically - you're a totally billy bullshitter and will say anything on this thread if you feel like it proves your case.

@TheKeatingFive

I don't think the costs of lockdown are being taken on board. Economically, socially, psychologically.

But in time it will hit us like a brick shithouse.

Yes exactly - but in time is the point. Not locking down, or postponing other health services to deal with covid patients, the consequences will be immediate and therefore cause panic/anger with the government.

It’s so interesting to me that when giving us graphs about the costs (human and economic) of not locking down (“4000 deaths a day!”), there was no graph or info about the costs of the lockdown itself so people could make a comparison instead of just thinking, 4000 dead, how awful.

I'm fed up of covid. I'm not that worried about covid itself. I'm more worried about the long term effects. For example, the damage to our jobs and our industry. I'm concerned of the back log of operations and how we will cope when we need to be seen by the consultant for our medical conditions next summer.

So basically - you're a totally billy bullshitter and will say anything on this thread if you feel like it proves your case.

How obnoxious you are!

So many people claim to have had the "flu" and believe that they have had it. They have not experienced an actual flu virus, but have had a very bad cold. A very bad cold can make you feel absolutely awful - but it doesn't make it flu.

@BogRollBOGOF
We didn't have this outcry in 2018 when there were 50 000 excess deaths caused by a bad flu season and poorly matched flu vaccine.

That's because the figures released by the government through the ONS were rubbish, as was shown by the British Medical Journal and Public Health England:

"a total of 3,454 ICU/HDU admissions of confirmed influenza were reported across the UK from week 40 2017 to week 15 2018, including 372 deaths, based on combined data from England, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

As for the government's claim that the vaccine had not been effective, the BMJ also pointed out that "we do not even have any information about the vaccination status of the people who died".

It's all in this article:
www.bmj.com/content/361/bmj.k2795/rr-6

That's not happening now, it did in wave one but certainly the HCPs I speak to (and I speak to a lot, daily in different trusts) are really clear that things aren't being cancelled or deferred now. I've had two situations in the last few months where I needed medical tests. Both times I was seen, referred and tests done within a day. It was done differently because of covid, but actually it was probably more efficient because they have a triage system in place now and do stuff over the phone where it can be leaving face to face appointments for those with an urgent need

Sorry @ineedsun I missed this - that’s great if no services are being deferred, have you spoken to people in the Midlands who have told you that? I’m in Sandwell, married to a doctor, and that’s not my understanding...

Some services still not there. I have a baby and no health visiting services at all. We know maternity is still affected. This isn’t to free up capacity for covid I don’t imagine, more to do with restrictions for infection control, so there are lots of issues at play when it comes to services not being as normal due to covid.