Horrified that people still don't get it

[PoppingCandies]

And I say this as someone who has essential hospital care delayed. But if hospital beds in ICU are full of patients with coronavirus, how do you expect hoz

@BogRollBOGOF

We could fatally infect grandparents with flu or norovirus any Christmas.

Probably less chance this year due to the lack of Christmas parties and crowded school halls watching nativities.

This constant focus on grandparents is annoying - there are millions of clinically vulnerable people who are working age. In fact, all of the CEV people I know are under 55.

Secondly the 'grandparent' in our family is 70 and probably has a good 20 years ahead of her given her health and age family members reached.

She only stopped work last year and is exactly the same as she was ten or more years ago.

It would be utterly tragic to lose her at the moment, way before her time.

I think it's actually a bit gross the way we treat older people as though they don't matter.

Do people not count in your life once they retire?

These people are younger than the President Elect FFS, they are people's mothers and fathers and many of them in perfectly good health and yet you write them off sneerily.

1 in 3 people who die of COVID have zero underlying health conditions so they're not the frail, 'clinging on to life by a thread' people you seem to have conjured up in your head

[quote TrustTheGeneGenie]@wheresmymojo

1 in 5 get long covid? Can you define long covid?

And 1 in 1o get a psychiatric disorder? Again, definition of that please.[/quote]
This long covid is post viral syndrome which I am sure is recognised been around a long time and has other causes ie a known consequence of flu or other virus

I think it's actually a bit gross the way we treat older people as though they don't matter

Yes I mean locking them away from family against their will is really kind in comparison isn't it.

1 in 3 people who die of COVID have zero underlying health conditions so they're not the frail, 'clinging on to life by a thread' people you seem to have conjured up in your head

What's the average age of those people? Please don't present it as healthy 30 something's when it's more likely to be 80 something's who wouldn't fair to well with any other virus either.

the analogy i use is, if you fall and break something, have a RTA, your hospital treatment will be compromised.
if you want to see your GP, it will be difficult.

so act to lessen the virus now

This long covid is post viral syndrome which I am sure is recognised been around a long time and has other causes ie a known consequence of flu or other virus

Absolutely and as we all know post viral syndrome can be shitty but not that horrendous to the incredibly awful for years kind. "Long covid' is being portrayed as life ruining and disabling when in reality it will be for a few but for others it'll be a couple of shitty months.

I think people do get it, but also get that large numbers of deaths or not, hospitals being overwhelmed or not, this can’t go on indefinitely. Fingers crossed the vaccine helps stop the old and vulnerable getting it and means our hospitals won’t be overwhelmed.

a large problem is the people isolating, and therefore not able to go to work, at hospital for example, i heard in Derby there were 60% less staff due to the above scenario.

The media deliberately misunderstand things. I’m am ex journalist now working in PR and I’m appalled by how irresponsible our media is. They absolutely should challenge but the constant speculation leads to utter confusion. Then they moan the government isn’t being clear. I’m not saying the government is blameless but in this situation that’s full of unknowns is expect “uturns” it’s called making changes as the data/information evolves

@JamminDoughnuts where did you hear 60%? Out hospital has 4% off with covid and 7% will be dangerous levels so 60% sounds slightly unbelievable but very worrying if true.

They locked down hard and quick without moaning about civil liberties.

Someone needs to "moan" about them, and keep moaning about them. Because at some point, the pandemic will be over.

I'm rather shocked at people don't seem to get that if we shut down the economy and lose hundreds of thousands of jobs, and shut the schools so parents can't work and we lose more hundreds of thousands of jobs, there will hardly be any taxes to pay for any hospitals, to treat people with Covid or anything else. Never mind free meals for school children, or even high quality education. Or benefits for several million unemployed.

And there seem to be a lot of people who think that are huge numbers of wealthy people who are just waiting to pay eye-watering amounts of tax, or that we can grab a larger share of the tax of large corporations from other countries to pay for this. And some don't realise how much interest we are already committed to paying on what we have borrowed so far.

It will become clear, but probably after the Covid epidemic has just died out.

[quote m0therofdragons]@JamminDoughnuts where did you hear 60%? Out hospital has 4% off with covid and 7% will be dangerous levels so 60% sounds slightly unbelievable but very worrying if true.[/quote]
it is worrying,
either bbc or guardian

perhaps i misheard, it is very high!

@JamminDoughnuts just checked and in derby in April 2020 sickness was up 60% compared to April 2019. That doesn’t mean 60% of staff were off!

I googled it and found nothing.... Theres no way a hospital could run on 40% of staff.

Equally it would be truly amazing if 60% of staff all had to self isolate all at once...

@HesterShaw1

They locked down hard and quick without moaning about civil liberties.

Someone needs to "moan" about them, and keep moaning about them. Because at some point, the pandemic will be over.

Yes. I repeat I am a lockdown supported but people have had the most basic of freedoms (to see loved ones, to leave their own house when they please etc) taken to facilitate it. That’s not a small thing. It’s absolutely mind blowing and I don’t like seeing people minimise it, or implying people talking about it are whingers.

This is why I'm so confused to see threads talking about what you're doing for Christmas. How anyone thinks it'll suddenly become safe to mix with other households I have no idea. Or if we do, we're just dragging it out into the new year and spring.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54877437

@amicissimma

I'm rather shocked at people don't seem to get that if we shut down the economy and lose hundreds of thousands of jobs, and shut the schools so parents can't work and we lose more hundreds of thousands of jobs, there will hardly be any taxes to pay for any hospitals, to treat people with Covid or anything else. Never mind free meals for school children, or even high quality education. Or benefits for several million unemployed.

And there seem to be a lot of people who think that are huge numbers of wealthy people who are just waiting to pay eye-watering amounts of tax, or that we can grab a larger share of the tax of large corporations from other countries to pay for this. And some don't realise how much interest we are already committed to paying on what we have borrowed so far.

It will become clear, but probably after the Covid epidemic has just died out.

Yes, this has been a theme throughout, “putting the economy before health”.

Some people don’t get that the economy IS health.

There were 28,000 deaths caused by flu in the worst of the past five years (and it doesn't cause the equivalent of long COVID in 1 in 5 people or psychiatric disorders in 1 in 10 people like COViD does).

There is no way 20% get long Covid or 10% get psychiatric disorders. You say facts are important and then come out with this nonsense. Covid is mild to moderate for the vast majority. The very old, very frail and obsess are most at risk from getting a severe dose.

[quote TrustTheGeneGenie]@wheresmymojo

1 in 5 get long covid? Can you define long covid?

And 1 in 1o get a psychiatric disorder? Again, definition of that please.[/quote]
Sorry, actually 1 in 5 re psychiatric disorders.

I presume the 1 in 10 was because this is twice as high as people who didn't have COVID thus 1 in 10 people who wouldn't have otherwise been in the same situation

www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-11-10-almost-20-covid-19-patients-receive-psychiatric-diagnosis-within-90-days

oh thanks @m0therofdragons

@HesterShaw1

They locked down hard and quick without moaning about civil liberties.

Someone needs to "moan" about them, and keep moaning about them. Because at some point, the pandemic will be over.

Agreed.

It’s against the law (in most cases) currently to permit someone to enter your private home. That’s a huge infringement of civil liberties. It may be required just now as a proportionate response to dealing with the pandemic, but it is most certainly not a small or trivial thing.

Anxiety and depression? Hardly surprising but it's probably not directly caused by Covid 19 the illness is it? Normal to feel that way when you've been told something is so dangerous and then you get it, no?
The way they present it makes it sound so much worse.

[quote TrustTheGeneGenie]@wheresmymojo

1 in 5 get long covid? Can you define long covid?

And 1 in 1o get a psychiatric disorder? Again, definition of that please.[/quote]

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.19.20214494v1

Long COVID = lasting longer than one month. Obviously a month of illness is not easy for people to manage, particularly if self employed