This scientist thinks we have got everything very, very wrong

[queenofknives]

I mean, he's pretty convincing so far tbh. Anyone else watching?

Yeah @Angrymum22 let's see some data to back that up shall we?

@Porcupineinwaiting

Yeah *@Angrymum22* let's see some data to back that up shall we?

I would love to see that too.

My experience of what hospital staff say is completely different to some people on here. Both of my daughters have friends who work in hospitals as doctors. All of those doctors are under extreme stress and very worried about covid.

My eldest had a birthday celebration that was within guidelines just before the more recent lockdown. The one married to a hospital doctor didn't come because of her husband's direct experiences of this disease.

Well I also was working in the NHS during the first wave; my perspective is diametrically different to angry mum. I´ĺl spare you my anecdotes (I´ḿ wary about writing about work anyway).

There is an advertising campaign aimed at encouraging people to get advice about medical problems currently, and that is also the right thing to have in place. I got checked out recently for an issue that had developed over the summer (basically ??? cancer) and the surgeon I saw commented that they had fitted me in between lock downs, which was fine.

I would agree with both SAGE and Independent SAGE that we are doing the right thing in taking precautions. We need to do as much as we can, but as safely as we can. It would be beyond tragic for people to get ill when a vaccine is so close on the horizon especially, and all we need to do is hang on (while socially distancing) a bit longer.

By way of balance since Ivor Cummins has been mentioned, there is a microbiologist who is a regular poster on r/sceptic who analyses IC's latest piece for accuracy. Worth a look.

[quote Notspecialflake]@CoffeeandCroissant yes, it's been criticised by scientists with an opposing view. Wow! The Professor of Evidence-Based Medicine at Oxford is one of the signatories good enough for me. Heneghan, Gupta... These people aren't idiots and are esteemed in their fields. Who knows who is right but it's not nonsense. In fact, the only proven nonsense comes from UK scientists who have been criticised by the ONS for their dodgy stats. Don't dismiss something suggesting lockdown is misguided because those advising for the lockdown dismiss it. It's hardly surprising they would say that[/quote]
Hahaha. Heneghan is absolutely NOT 'esteemed in his field'.

HCP who 'resigned' from Treliske in Truro was talking a load of bollocks

Cornwall is also a very low area.

Blimey over 33K case today but I suppose tbey aren't really cases op.
Deayh figures delayed which won't be good news.

Going down in most places op?
Have you checked COVID messenger lately?
Far more red than green.
I accept there is a lag but still.

@Porcupineinwaiting

Yeah *@Angrymum22* let's see some data to back that up shall we?

I suspect it hasn’t killed more people - yet anyway - but it’s not a stupid point because there has been real concern (widely reported) that people haven’t been seeking treatment because of fear of catching covid in hospital. Cancer referrals have plummeted (this may not be the only reason but it’s one of them) but it’s thought people haven’t gone to a and e for cardiac symptoms etc either.

I support lockdown btw but we should be willing to openly discuss the consequences.

@Ginogineli you are right.

*It’s totally true

My mates an icu consultant

Covid deaths as recorded are deaths were patient has had a positive test in 28 days - they don’t have to have died from covid they just need to have died with covid in their system*

However the ONS Figures who take into account the actual cause of desth is higher than the 28 day figures.

@amber763

I roll my eyes at anyone who gets their information from YouTube videos.

Good for you.

I roll my eyes at anyone who ONLU gets their news & forms their opinions from the mainstream media, who doesn’t question the narrative behind it, who doesn’t question the government agenda.

YouTube can absolutely be a questionable source, but it is also a platform which is not controlled by the mainstream (to a degree, even YouTube is subject to censorship) where whistleblowers can freely put their alternative views out there - who is to say that their experiences, views & opinions aren’t relevant or real? What other platform do people have to reach a wider audience & educate them as to what they think is really going on? They are restricted in reaching a wider audience, & YouTube is an incredibly powerful platform for doing this. Just because it’s on YouTube doesn’t mean it should be discounted.

It’s about challenging the mainstream narrative & not being brainwashed by the propaganda spouted constantly by the standard media outlets. I’m open to reading & watching everything available to me, and not being drip fed information through channels dictated & controlled by the government agenda. Anything outside of that approach is simple naivety, in my opinion.

@Anniegetyourgun you got the language wrong. It was suggested that the vulnerable should stay at home temporarily (ie until a vaccine) to avoid others being locked up which at time we were under the tier system.
Well newsflash dh has been wfh since March.
Yet we must send our kids to school unless we fancy being fined or deregister to give up our places to others who want them.
Although actuall 2 of the 3 are now self isolating for 2 weeks. If one of them develops symptoms we are supposed to get vulnerable family members to move out. Well dh is ECV and I am vulnerable.
So yes that will work.

The problem is that all issues on SM have to be binary, but in RL they're not.
So there are of course reasons for lockdown etc, but there are also reasons not to deal with Covid the way we are currently doing.
At the moment, Covid 'discussions' just become a bunfight where anyone questioning an unprecedented response to a new virus is apparently an anti-vax right wing conspiracy-theorist, which is of course not the case.
These issues really ought to be discussed in a measured fashion. But having seen the Brexit debacle of Remoaners v Gammons, I realise that I am naive to hope that could happen.

@AcornAutumn well thats 10 minutes of my life I won't get back. I was hoping that she had come up with a way of protecting the vulnerable but no.

Suicide is up 200% this year in uk

Does anyone actually have a source for this statement?

@GwendolineMarysLaces care to elaborate on your statement on Heneghan? I meanz, apart from those saying he is wrong on lockdown, why would you say that? Source?

It's outing but prior to Covid he (self) published a paper that we had to appraise at my work and he'd got the statistical analysis oh so very very wrong. My colleagues and I marvel on a weekly basis how he can possibly be in charge of the centre for evidence-based medicine.

Agree with you OP. Dr Mike Yeadon is also interesting to listen to...
Lockdowns don't work. The death rate is low. Time to crack on...

Those of you talking about government agendas, low death rates and what your mate who works in the NHS says about empty hospitals, please read this. No, it's not going on in all hospitals but it is some and numbers are growing. It is severely worrying at this stage in the season for this to be happening.

But no, it's just a conspiracy because the government wants to mess up the economy for no reason whatsoever

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-nhs-hospital-a-and-e-coronavirus-manchester-b1721012.html?utm_content=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1605131803

This, the Great Barrington Declaration, herd immunity etc etc...

..it's all horse bollocks

@woodyLdn

Agree with you OP. Dr Mike Yeadon is also interesting to listen to... Lockdowns don't work. The death rate is low. Time to crack on...

"Michael Yeadon purveys misinformation, whether about false positives or trends in data." David Spiegelhalter, Statistician , Cambridge University. mobile.twitter.com/d_spiegel/status/1322474249018314761

As well as spreading misinformation about empty hospitals:
"Health board debunk nonsense coronavirus conspiracy claims about Gwent hospital."
mobile.twitter.com/ArgusICraig/status/1318534847007232000

What alarms me is the number of cancers I'm seeing on a daily basis in people who should have been diagnosed months ago but who either weren't being referred to diagnostics due to the lockdown, or were too scared to attend.

Where I work, central south, our numbers are high but our patients aren't as unwell as first time around.

Interestingly diagnostics aren't crazy busy, like you might think. We always run with staff shortages, but out of 40 of us, we've had one CV positive staff member.

I don't know the numbers at Treliske now, but I know that at the end of half term, they had 4 known positives there.

Anyway, I admit I'm a bit sceptical of the science ('next slide please...') driving this lockdown.

We only think there are lots of deaths because it's being drummed into us by the media.

If all daily deaths started to be reported, there would be lots of other health conditions that would suddenly seem a lot scarier, too.

@LindaEllen

There have been a significant number of excess deaths from all causes this year compared to the last 5 years. There was a huge peak in April. This is in EXCESS of all of those normal deaths.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/934792/Weekly_report_mortality_W46.pdf

@lindaellen We think there’s been a lot of deaths because there really were a lot of deaths, over and above the normal levels, until the effect of the first lockdown kicked in.
Look at the ONS week by week statistics. Compare them with the average deaths over the last five years, and then come back and tell me it’s not a lot of deaths. I’ll wait.