This scientist thinks we have got everything very, very wrong

[queenofknives]

I mean, he's pretty convincing so far tbh. Anyone else watching?

So we have had some loss of liberty, This was so that we wouldn't be inundated even more than we have been with unnecessary deaths.

This virus has a natural spread that is exponential. So without restrictions it would spread a lot and spread fast.

That means it can look as though there isn't much happening and then pow! a lot of people get infected and some die.

This means that we have locked down, both times arguably rather late, but still without piles of bodies awaiting mass burial pits.

I would rather, myself, be in the position of being locked down and not having the piles of bodies (and I would have supported sooner lock downs, hopefully therefore shorter ones).

@MadridSun I've said this all along about Spain but people don't want to hear it. I don't know what more they could have done and yet the numbers are still high.

I can never work out why people don't understand that we have the figures we have with lockdowns, restrictions, masks and social distancing. Also shielding of the extremely vulnerable for months.

What would have been and what would be if we didn't have that?

It doesn't kill virtually no one.

It's killed 50+k people out of the 1million confirmed cases in the UK.

There's 66.9 million people. Imagine the deaths without restrictions

Even if you account for the possible 10-15k people who have had it without tests at the beginning the percentages are truly horrifying.

In 10 months covid has killed 50k people in the uk. With restrictions.

Flu kills on average 11k. (Before anyone trots out the flu line!)

There is absolutely no evidence that lockdowns reduce death rates. There is no link between tough containment measures and less deaths- in fact this may actually increase deaths longer term.

Right. I think this is the key point. I'm not saying covid is a hoax or any such thing. But it seems clear that lockdown is not an effective response. In fact, it creates many extremely serious, potentially devastating problems of its own. There is a better way, which would involve shielding the vulnerable while the rest of us got on with normal life plus plenty of handwashing.

@gnomeisland she wasn't even an HCP she is a photographer who has done a few bank shifts! She was definitely talking bollocks though

@queenofknives

Covid: UK first country in Europe to pass 50,000 deaths!

But we know that a lot of these are deaths 'with' covid rather than as a result of covid. The numbers are going down in most places. It's crazy to have a lockdown in the southwest when there's virtually no cases, for example.

I'm not saying it's not serious or real, and I do think there are some measures we should take seriously. But I feel the way it's been dealt with is way more dangerous than the virus itself. First lockdown while we got our heads around it - fine. But now? People are losing their jobs, their businesses, their health, their freedom and even their lives and there's no convincing evidence that this is for the best.

We know that over 90 % of these deaths are because of covid. The ambiguity is because often in medicine it is hard to know the exact cause of death. Someone with cancer might get covid and die the next week. Both conditions would be on the certificate and the death might be directly as a result of covid, though the cancer was already there. The person might have lived another 5 or 10 years without covid. And situations can be a lot more complex than that.

The death figures can be considered an underestimate for a number of reasons. We don't count deaths over 28 days for example, while many people with covid can be in ICU for several weeks or even months. And many people in the first wave may have died at home with covid without being tested, and covid may not have been given as a cause of death therefore,

@queenofknives

There is absolutely no evidence that lockdowns reduce death rates. There is no link between tough containment measures and less deaths- in fact this may actually increase deaths longer term.

Right. I think this is the key point. I'm not saying covid is a hoax or any such thing. But it seems clear that lockdown is not an effective response. In fact, it creates many extremely serious, potentially devastating problems of its own. There is a better way, which would involve shielding the vulnerable while the rest of us got on with normal life plus plenty of handwashing.

The "shielding the vulnerable and everyone going back to normal" crap has been completely discredited as unworkable.

There is a better way, which would involve shielding the vulnerable while the rest of us got on with normal life

Weird that not one country on the planet has managed to get this ‘better way’ to work, no?

How do people really not understand how low the death rate is. The UK has a population of 67,886,011 people and the covid death rate today is 50,365. As percentage that is 0.07%. That is extremely low.
OP I'm with you, normal life again please.

@queenofknives how do you propose shielding the vulnerable - do you realise the vulnerable arent all pensioners weeks from death in care homes? I'm CEV, I have a job, children, strangely enough a completely normal life!

How would you propose shielding someone like me? And I'm one of the lucky ones who can work from home! Idiotic suggestion

I roll my eyes at anyone who gets their information from YouTube videos.

@GoldenOmber

There is a better way, which would involve shielding the vulnerable while the rest of us got on with normal life

Weird that not one country on the planet has managed to get this ‘better way’ to work, no?

Yes, it is. Considering that governments have experts and access to accurate data if they want it, it's utterly mad that they are pushing for policies which will ruin their own economies. It's senseless.

But also, please note some countries have had a more measured approach and have not had lockdowns or only minimal ones.

@ILoveMyMonkey

How do people really not understand how low the death rate is. The UK has a population of 67,886,011 people and the covid death rate today is 50,365. As percentage that is 0.07%. That is extremely low. OP I'm with you, normal life again please.

Except it's not 50k deaths out of a population of 66.9 mil.

It's 50k deaths from an infection in the populations of 1.4 million people.

@Igotjelly

Ever wonder why the death rates are so low? Not to mention the numerous other causes of death that would increase if we let Covid run amock and use up all the available hospital capacity. It's incredibly selfish to say fuck it and get on with life. No where else in the world do they have such utter disregard for the health of their elderly and vulnerable.

This many times over Have you really forgotten what was happening in Italy before they locked down Have you bothered watching any of the articles about what's happening in Liverpool and the northwest Do you really just ignore excess death figures Do you really not get the fact that these are the figures with restrictions so they would be higher without?

Whatever you argue over if it's flu, death definitions, if masks work etc I really can't believe that people just don't see the impact of this in front of their eyes

@ILoveMyMonkey

How do people really not understand how low the death rate is. The UK has a population of 67,886,011 people and the covid death rate today is 50,365. As percentage that is 0.07%. That is extremely low. OP I'm with you, normal life again please.

If the virus "Let rip" there would be many times that level of deaths. I think if you could see the scenario for which you are asking, you would cease to want it.

And life would not go "back to normal" amid the carnage.

As Chris Whitty says, it is not a choice between the economy and health. We need to have a handle on covid before we can get our lives back.

@Confuzzlediddled she has caused havoc.
So many people working for the NHS and Duchy are aghast at the shite she has been spouting.
They have all worked so hard to stay on top of this and are now starting to be concerned with the rising numbers.
Sounds like you're local?

Unfortunately you wouldn't be allowed on to a covid ward but if you were the sound of people dying would stay with you for a long time. Kills virtually no-one indeed. The reason they say died with covid is they can't do all the post mortems. There are too many. Stop spreading this drivel please, it's really damaging. Just have some patience. Do you really beleive the damage that has been done to the economy is on purpose? Really? Tories handing out payments so people will stay at home???

@GoldenOmber

There is a better way, which would involve shielding the vulnerable while the rest of us got on with normal life

Weird that not one country on the planet has managed to get this ‘better way’ to work, no?

Exactly

How would you propose shielding someone like me? And I'm one of the lucky ones who can work from home! Idiotic suggestion

Thanks for the ad hominem! Well I think there are certainly possibilities for vulnerable people to be supported to be at home and to isolate from others. It is a shame if a minority of people can't live normal life because of the threat of this virus, but I think it's selfish to expect everyone to give up their lives. I'm sure that there are sensible solutions that could be put in place.

@queenofknives

Oh, and the Great Barrington Declaration has also been completed discredited.

Do you have a link to the discrediting? I just looked and nearly 12,000 public health scientists have signed it. Have they taken back their support?

www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/

It doesn't matter how many 'public health scientists' have signed their letter (especially as signatures are not verified), we don't do science by petition.

Yes, it is. Considering that governments have experts and access to accurate data if they want it, it's utterly mad that they are pushing for policies which will ruin their own economies. It's senseless.

So what’s your theory for why nobody had? Because mine is “it doesn’t work”, which seems by far the simplest explanation.

@queenofknives

How would you propose shielding someone like me? And I'm one of the lucky ones who can work from home! Idiotic suggestion

Thanks for the ad hominem! Well I think there are certainly possibilities for vulnerable people to be supported to be at home and to isolate from others. It is a shame if a minority of people can't live normal life because of the threat of this virus, but I think it's selfish to expect everyone to give up their lives. I'm sure that there are sensible solutions that could be put in place.

Like the government eventually agreeing to a lockdown.

@amber763

I roll my eyes at anyone who gets their information from YouTube videos.

I get my information from a variety of sources. Lots of respectable journalists post on you tube, substack and so on. I also follow the mainstream media. I just thought this particular video was interesting and that others might find it interesting too.