This scientist thinks we have got everything very, very wrong

[queenofknives]

I mean, he's pretty convincing so far tbh. Anyone else watching?

Long COVID' does not exist. Post viral syndrome does and has been around for a long time.

Tell that to the Wuhan radiologists who were xraying images of extensive lung damage in "mild" sufferers who were still experiencing symptoms.

@queenofknives - there are also many Covid deaths we DON'T count - those that happen after 28 days, those that happened out of hospital in the early days. The real figure is much higher than 50k. But you know, crack on

I'm not sure I believe in Long Covid as a different thing to post viral syndrome but I'm absolutely no expert

vast majority of hospitals are not overwhelmed

Nope. But every intervention or lack of takes 4-8 weeks to have an impact. Waiting for the hospitals to be overrun before you do anything is a bit like trying to fix a broken tap without turning off the water and wondering why you're getting wet.

I'm absolutely no expert

Neither am I. But the Wuhan Doctors made the medical journals open source. The xrays weren't subtle. The damage was extensive.

We aren't xraying everyone who has a positive test in this country. By about mid feb China was. The evidence was available then.

I think the really shocking thing is how quickly our supposedly world leading health service fell apart over this.

As with all things it depends how you count it.

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-coronavirus-death-toll-latest-figures-ons-b62696.html

So not "completely baseless" just another perspective.

Not according to the ONS.

@MrsMiaWallis

I think the really shocking thing is how quickly our supposedly world leading health service fell apart over this.

It's good, but not all that well funded, with lower hospital and ICU bed numbers than other countries.

It also has had political leadership for several years that ran everything down as much as possible, including contingency planning for pandemics, disastrously.

If you do that, then you really need to act quickly and decisively if the need arises, and we didn't.

Also corrupt bungling of Test and Trace by cronies (and then labelling it "NHS"). If we'd had an effective Test and Trace system, it would have helped enormously. But then, countries like Germany that did this well also had a properly organised and funded infrastructure for local public health measures in place already....

I wish this debacle would encourage the government to bring in means tested healthcare or raise taxes a la Germany. But we all have to carry on with the pretence that the NHS is amazing, when its actually a bit shit and desperately in need of streamlining. This doesn't apply to medical staff and nurses the majority of whom work hard and selflessly

@Jakey056

530K deaths in the UK every year. This year you have had 50K from/ with / maybe covid. What are the flu deaths like? The survival rate for this disease is more than 97% Sure people die but it is not an out of control disease - lots of cases and the deaths are in a small section of the community. That is very sad, I am not condoning or saying the people who died don't matter but the incidence rate and death rate are wildly apart.

You're not really thinking this through, so I'll go through this with your figures.

530K deaths in the UK every year.
This year you have had 50K from/ with / maybe covid.
That's 10% more than usual. So far. That's not statistically insignificant. If someone said to you "Wow, deaths are up 10% compared to last year" wouldn't you say "Hey, why? What's going on?".

Sure people die but it is not an out of control disease
So far this year, death rates are the highest since 1985.
Just imagine where we would be WITHOUT taking any action.

What are the flu deaths like?
In fact (and fortunately) flu rates are down this year. This is NOT due to flu being incorrectly classed as covid. The tests recognise a completely different protein in each case. Sometimes people mistake the fact that flu is ALSO a coronavirus, just not the coronavirus that causes Covid 19. This is down in large part to social distancing, hand-washing and face coverings as well as vulnerable people being more likely to isolate.

the deaths are in a small section of the community
I'm not sure where to start with this one? It's true that here are some factors (social economic, ethnic origin, high BMI, pre-existing medical conditions) which are associated with a higher risk of death. I really wouldn't describe any of these as a small section of the community.

Some people seem to think a pandemic equals a zombie apocalypse - if they are not literally seeing bodies in the street they can't believe in it. It's a lot easier to take it seriously when you've lost someone to it.

to all the families out there, including mine, who have.

Not everyone who dies of COVID dies within 28 days and yes some who die within 28 days die of other things.
However the stats suggest that the 27 day deaths are understated rather than over.
Plus there were a large number of excess deaths in care homes at the start which were not counted as COVID but could well have been.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53280011

Sorry 28 day

I keep reading lots of anecdotal tales about people being recorded as covid deaths when they've never had it. My father in law passed away in June. He had a chest infection which went untreated because the GP wouldn't see him due to Covid, and he had COPD. He would have been a prime candidate to have put as a covid death if they were fudging the figures. Funnily enough his death was recorded as chest infection and copd. No mention of covid. And I know this as I have the death certificate as I'm executor.

To all those who are despairing at the constant reference to experts on you tube, conspiracy crap and facts from Facebook, death definitions and taking away of civil liberties etc etc

You might want to visit The wibble movement on Facebook. It calms me down when I just want to scream

Why is nobody talking about the test we use? Is there any truth to his claims that it could detect old viral particles, meaning the person may well not currently be infected?

I don’t know, genuine question!

Well, found the below. Why does this guy believe what he’s saying then? He may be anti lockdown but he’s still a microbiologist and an expert in infectious diseases! It’s so bizarre.

“ a single negative nasopharyngeal swab does not adequately exclude COVID-19 infection when the remaining clinical picture is supportive. A positive test is, however, virtually unimpeachable.”

[quote luckylavender]@queenofknives - there are also many Covid deaths we DON'T count - those that happen after 28 days, those that happened out of hospital in the early days. The real figure is much higher than 50k. But you know, crack on [/quote]
This is a very good point and one I have been meaning to make.

A man in my husband's office was taken into hospital in March and was ventilated after getting covid 19. He was on a ventilator for weeks and left hospital over 2 months later, still very unwell. If he had died under the current rules for counting covid deaths he wouldn't be included. The few people who die with covid as opposed to of covid are at the very least balanced out by those who aren't counted because of the time it took them to die.

A patient mine died in April this year. A post Mortimer reviewed that she died of aspiration pneumonia. She had a stomach bug and aspirated vomit which resulted in damage to the lungs and pneumonia. This was at the height of the first wave and although she had tested negative a chest X-ray showed “Covid lung” which looks similar to aspiration pneumonia damage.
Due to the NHS situation Covid was put on her death certificate but subsequent testing showed no sign of it.
A friend died of cancer recently, she was at home and had plenty of visitors some of who tested positive. She refused point blank to be tested because she didn’t want it appearing on her death certificate. She very definitely died of cancer, Covid would have had no effect on her disease.
A close friend is a local ICU consultant, we were chatting about the general problem Covid had had on his dept. They had almost no deaths IN the hospital due to heart attacks or strokes during the first lockdown. When asked why his answer was because they all died at home, too frightened to attend A&E. This is where some of the excess deaths lie, how many of these home deaths would have survived if they had attended A&E? We will never know.

• bloody autocorrect

Fear of Covid may well have killed more people than Covid itself.