AIBU to say enough now?

[Enoughnowstop]

I am not sure I can take any more.

I am a single parent. I am over 50. My children depend on me to bring in a wage and keep a roof over our heads. One of my children is a type 1 diabetic and as such, vulnerable to this virus. I am without support as my parents are dead and I am an only child. I am a teacher and a good one. I love my job. I want to be in the classroom and I want to be supportive of the students I work with.

I have read thread after thread on here in the last 24 hours with people looking to find loopholes or claim to just use 'common sense' so that, for the sake of their mental health, they can get through the next 4 weeks. People who have every intention of meeting up with others, even if it is 'just' outside. People who want their children in school because they can't possibly cope with their children at home in lockdown and what about their rights to an education, a future and their mental health.

I have spent an hour this morning quietly sobbing in my room whilst reading this shit. The utter lack of social responsibility and refusal to see a bigger picture. Not one fuck given about either the physical or mental health of every single person now working in key positions knowing that potentially, things are worse than they were 7 months or so ago. When you want to push your child in the pram and don't see why meeting up with someone else pushing their child in a pram, despite the rules being 2 people not 4 people but it's OK because your mental health can't take any more, maybe just give a thought to those of us who are cramming ourselves into small rooms without ventilation with 32 people who refuse to wear masks because they're exempt and who are transmitting the virus with few.....statistics suggest that there will be anywhere between 5 and 50 students in my school tomorrow who will have that virus. A russian roulette of whether or not I will end up in a room with one of them. I mean how could we be anything but mentally unhealthy knowing full well that tomorrow might be the day we contract this virus and our lives change forever? Who is protecting the mental and physical health of keyworkers? Does anyone actually care about the mental and physical health of keyworkers?

Maybe just start thinking about the mental health of every single person and every single person's right to life and our children's right to have a physically and mentally well parent, capable of meeting their needs.

And please, feel free to professionally insult me some more, becuase that's what always happens on these threads, tell me we don't need teachers like you and if you're that bothered, get another job there are thousands of unemployed just waiting in the wings to take over. Well, no, you can't do without me and my colleagues, our experience, our skills, our professionalism. Just as you can't do without the medical professionals who are facing dealing with this shit again because your right to mental health negates our right to both physical and mental health.

Your rights don't usurp mine. I don't have much faith in this government, but they are what they are. They are making the rules. Follow them. Remember you are not the only one struggling. Be grateful that you're not the one doing the keyworking and be supportive of those of us who are by remembering we also have a right to be physically and mentally healthy. There is balance required. For all of us. We all have a right to a future. Let's make sure those who's future is taken from them in this pandemic number as few, not as many, as possible.

As for me, I think my resignation is on the cards. I think anything at all is better than this.

[quote JurassicParkaha]@Pascal2908 London Ambulance Service callouts to suicide attempts or suicides - they shared figures that showed an increase since April. Local policing teams have also reported an increase in calls to attempted suicides. And as awful as teachers have it, I can sure you it is no walk in the park for the policeman who has to spend an hour talking down a suicidal man with a knife who can't take isolation anymore. Or the paramedic teams who couldn't resucitate a young woman who had been trying to access mental health provision for 6 months. I have friends volunteering at Samaritans and Crisisline who hear calls from people who have lost everything and in despair - EVERYONE is suffering. Even if you can't see it.

All death is awful. More people die from diarrhea globally (1.7mn annually) than Covid so far. So judging everyone as callous and horrible and thinking only teachers have it rough is really lacking in empathy.[/quote]
In case you hadn't realised from my post about interviewing suspects... I work on a police team.. but SORRY ... I may be hard hearted but someone threatening suicide (or needing to be 'talked down' ) invariably results in them being talked down - and doesn't compare with being obliged to work in a space of statistically greater spreaders with a vulnerable child at home . Who WILL be very ill and the mother has spread it ..

@Pascal2908 And you know for sure the mortality rate of someone with Covid (1% in the under 80s) is going to be higher than someone attempting suicide? And I get the natural cynicism of someone doing your job, but it DOES compare to a virus - because you have no idea if the person needing to be talked down can indeed be talked down. The same way you don't know if covid is definitely going to cause mortality even in a vulnerable child, because there's plenty of cases where they have survived it. 99% of those infected in the under 80s survive it - according to the latest Imperial study.

It's all a luck of the draw. If Covid was a guaranteed killer, then yes, I understand it. takes precedence. But it isn't. So no, I don't accept that it's more dangerous than a severe depressive episode that could result in a successful suicide. And if Covid has lasting effects, so does someone who has come close to the brink of a suicide - and unless you follow up on all your calls months/years later - not sure you know if they indeed succumb or not at some point.

I broadly agree that people need to stick to the rules but I don’t feel that just because I’m a teacher people have a moral obligation to barricade themselves away and not take their baby out in a pram to see a friend from a distance. I don’t know anything about other people’s mental health and PND is a very real thing with regards to that example.
I can’t control other people’s actions and I chose to be a teacher. No, I didn’t expect it to be even mildly dangerous, but there we go. I also feel that we are very, very fortunate to have such a secure job right now.
You aren’t wrong, but I think that some of the examples in your OP are unreasonable.

Pascal - how many actually suicides are presided over by a police officer?! I think the majority of people who attempt suicide really mean it unfortunately and can’t be easily talked down. Risk of death from suicide should be taken as seriously as risk of death from covid IMO.

Pascal2908 So you are a police officer?

Izzy30 I’m a police officer and in my role I go to all suicides to ascertain there are no suspicious circumstances. I’m more worried about suicide rates than I am COVID and the colleagues I work with would agree.

I agree it shouldn’t be underestimated and I fear when this years figure are released it will make sobering reading. There was two deaths on railways near me today and I would be shocked if they weren’t both suicides.

@year5teacher

I broadly agree that people need to stick to the rules but I don’t feel that just because I’m a teacher people have a moral obligation to barricade themselves away and not take their baby out in a pram to see a friend from a distance. I don’t know anything about other people’s mental health and PND is a very real thing with regards to that example. I can’t control other people’s actions and I chose to be a teacher. No, I didn’t expect it to be even mildly dangerous, but there we go. I also feel that we are very, very fortunate to have such a secure job right now. You aren’t wrong, but I think that some of the examples in your OP are unreasonable.

I’m glad to hear someone raise a positive aspect about teaching. I don’t read it enough that you jobs are pretty much safe. It’s a terrible time but I wouldn’t want finicial strain nor job loss to worry about.

What do you think stops more people dying from Covid @JurassicParkaha?

Just in case you've been unconscious for the last week (as opposed to wilful ignorance), it's access to hospital treatment. Btw 1% is a lot of deaths. Including already too many frontline workers - doctors, nurses, bus drivers, etc.

Guess what? Nobody (Covid, cancer, or broken leg) gets any treatment with uncontained Covid. The beds will be full, and any spare will be no use because the staff will be off sick.

Bereavement can trigger suicide - especially when losing somebody in traumatic circumstances.

PTSD sometimes leads to suicide too.
You'll have seen the article I linked earlier about the traumatised ICU nurses being sectioned. Uncontained Covid has taken a terrible toll.

We cannot do whatever somebody wants in case they threaten suicide. We can - and should - provide better mental health resources.

Back to the wise words of Professor Sridhar:

^The best option, for the health of people and that of the economy, is to pursue a 'maximum suppression' approach":
@devisridhar writes: get cases low, monitor border, test, trace, isolate^

It's about much more than death.

Long Covid. Many sufferers were previously young and healthy, and had initially mild cases without hospitalisation.

So far found to cause heart, lung, or kidney damage, neurological issues, type 1 diabetes, blood clotting issues, male infertility. That's just what we know at this early stage. Who knows what hidden damage might come to light in future years.

amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/04/long-covid-the-evidence-of-lingering-heart-damage

@Nicknacky

Pascal2908 So you are a police officer?

No. I work for a Govt department seconded to the police if it makes a difference ? ??

@SheepandCow given that we contained the problem and had surplus NHS beds in the last lockdown (despite everyone complaining even then that people were rule breaking sociopaths blah blah blah), I'd say we've PROVEN that most people do follow rules, and those who don't aren't enough to actually overwhelm the system.

So let's maybe accept that those who do, may do it out of desperation and would take up an NHS bed anyway, and cause trauma and grief to all those who encounter them, even without Covid. Then there are some who do it because they're arseholes, but yet don't make an actual dent, if the months so far have proven anything. And the majority are rule abiding, may take calculated risks (where they no they aren't in contact with anyone vulnerable etc), but actually do what they are supposed to.

[quote SheepandCow]It's about much more than death.

Long Covid. Many sufferers were previously young and healthy, and had initially mild cases without hospitalisation.

So far found to cause heart, lung, or kidney damage, neurological issues, type 1 diabetes, blood clotting issues, male infertility. That's just what we know at this early stage. Who knows what hidden damage might come to light in future years.

amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/04/long-covid-the-evidence-of-lingering-heart-damage[/quote]
You are one of the few people who makes sense on these threads.. thank you !

Pascal2908 Yes, when you are talking about suicide rates and giving posters the impression you are an officer.

Be transparent. Interviewing a suspect in a large room is NOT representative of police work and you have said that police officers have ppe when that is not the case.

I geel fir you op too. In recent months and especially recently I have noticed so much resentment towards all keyworkers but Teachers seen to be getting the worst of it.
We have had childish its not fair tge keyworkers kids csn go to school but my kids can't type posts.
Lately I have seen all this talk about privledged people wanting lockdown. Many of these are public sector with job security of course.
Lockdown has caused so much mental heslth issues and suicides etc. These individuals never seem bothered by traumatised medics whrn they want us to let the virus rip though. Don't care much about ECV either. They should stay at home temporarily apparently until a vaccine but wail that they were locked up during lockdown.
Good luck op from a parent who appreciates what you are doing.

I can't take the credit @Pascal2908
I follow the experts - the WHO, the BMA, all the medical and scientific (and economic) experts.

I highly recommend following Professor Devi Sridhar. Her calm intelligent explanations are well worth a read.

@SheepandCow

I can't take the credit *@Pascal2908* I follow the experts - the WHO, the BMA, all the medical and scientific (and economic) experts.

I highly recommend following Professor Devi Sridhar. Her calm intelligent explanations are well worth a read.

Same as ... it's the only way with so much distortion from those trying to shore up their point of view .. with dare i say it on this night of all nights .. fake news ...

I read earlier that the lifetime risk of suicide amongst people with untreated depression is almost 20%.

The U.K. government believe the chances of an infected person of dying from covid is 0.5-1% (other countries calculate differently.)

I’m with you. And I’m absolutely appalled by the many gleeful ‘sick of people wheeling out the mental health card, I must go on holiday for my mental health’ anecdotes and statements being made on this thread. Guess it doesn’t take much for some people’s true colours and feelings about mental health problems to come out of their mouths for all to hear does it. OP included. Stigma is alive and kicking. Frightening to think some of these people will have jobs working with children and vulnerable adults.

This is disgusting.
OP is clearly struggling. She's in a job that's immensely stressful at the best of times, under extra pressure, little support, and scared for her child.

She's writing to express her fears and (heaven forbid) get some virtual support.
Nobody can talk about empathy at the same time as attacking her.

We should appreciate the people who are looking after our children.

They deserve protection.

People want the schools open - the childcare as much as for education - then why not call for the implementation of WHO recommendations for Covid safer schools.

My last post was supposed to be in reply to @JurassicParkaha . MN borked for a moment there

Isn't threatening suicide considered a form of abuse?

Certainly it's immensely distasteful to exploit mentally ill or tormented people for an (ignorant) agenda.

People are concerned about suicide rates and mental health issues? Then you'll want Covid contained. Nobody can get any mental health support if the carers are off sick (perhaps themselves with mental ill health from trauma) or dead.

Isn't threatening suicide considered a form of abuse?

Fucking hell.

Yes if a man tells his partner she can never leave or he will kill himself.

No if it people expressing their fear and dismay and where it may lead on a forum discussing the relative harms of lockdown vs uncontrolled covid.

I have a history of suicide attempts as I said upthread and I found your post nasty. Really unpleasant. You can’t get any fucking mental health support covid or no covid, and you’re ignoring the fact that lockdown will be the trigger for some suicidal people, who won’t be here to get they mythical help once the virus is contained.

@Pascal2908 @SheepandCow

eyeroll Given that EVERY country and Government, and scientific and economic and medical advisor disagrees on the interpretation of those statistics, no idea how you have decided something is the gospel truth. Like everyone else, you have an INTERPRETATION of what is important, and which statistics should be viewed as more appropriate than another set, and how to balance different criteria.

At the end of the day, that is what EVERYONE is entitled to do. They have the agency to decide what scares them more, what calculated risks they can take, and what facts and figures mean more to them. So you can sneer and jeer as much as you want, but it still doesn't make you more right than anyone else on here. And yes, Covid has lasting effects - guess recession, unemployment, tanked economies, starvation, depression don't, and won't impact NHS resources...

@SheepandCow

Isn't threatening suicide considered a form of abuse?

Certainly it's immensely distasteful to exploit mentally ill or tormented people for an (ignorant) agenda.

People are concerned about suicide rates and mental health issues? Then you'll want Covid contained. Nobody can get any mental health support if the carers are off sick (perhaps themselves with mental ill health from trauma) or dead.

Once again spot on and better put then I could manage.. if hospitals and health care is under pressure then it stands to reason that an area of that care (mental health services) which was already screwed due to austerity.. will be even more under pressure, with the NHS overwhelmed by Covid !