Secondary schools are fucked

[noblegiraffe]

The latest ONS data for infection rates in pupils in Y7-11 shows that they are now nearly as high for university students, the ones who were getting blamed for catching it at pubs and parties.

The latest data for number of cases per 100,000 in each year group looks alarming, even more so when you realise that the latest column is an underestimate. The figures for Y11 in particular are horrendous, and this is a crucial exam year group.

Attendance data for secondary schools is going down each week - 82% according to the latest data (excluding those on half term).

On 22nd October an estimated 557,000 pupils were off school, either isolating, or with covid (this includes primaries, I can't see the data for just secondaries).

On 22nd October, 55% of secondary schools had at least 1 pupil self-isolating due to contact with a case in school.

There is, as far as a I can see, no discussion from those in charge about what to do about this. Schools are a priority, except when it comes to talking about them. Data is hidden, covered up or just ignored. People use arguments about primary schools (parents need to work!) to apply to all ages of pupil.

Secondary schools were set up with 'bubbles'. Risk assessments were based on premise that bubbles would be mixing, and would be sent home if there were cases. This was abandoned a few weeks into term when the DfE elbowed PHE out of the way and took over the the decisions about who would be sent home. Now only 'close contacts' are sent home rather than whole bubbles, which makes no sense in the context of what we know about covid transmission in poorly ventilated spaces with no social distancing. Kids who were told that they could mix 'because they were in a bubble' are now wondering why they're in a bubble but not in a bubble in any meaningful sense.

If, when it comes to any upcoming lockdown, the message is 'schools will stay open' and there is no distinguishing between primary and secondary, and no discussion about how this trend in secondary can be addressed, then be aware that any lockdown isn't going to solve the problem because it's spreading in secondary schools.

PS: I don't want schools to close but they shouldn't stay open as they are because the data shows there's a real problem with as they are. I do want a discussion about specifically secondary so talk about primary elsewhere. If you find the data scary then that's a problem with the situation, not me posting it. I don't want any anecdotes about how your school hasn't had any cases unless you put the word 'yet' at the end of it. If your school has masks everywhere that's great for your school, but the government says their use should be avoided in classrooms and their use in corridors is only mandated in lockdown areas. Schools are not all open in Europe.

Some suggestions: masks, ventilation, review of who is being sent home, regular testing (especially if there are cases), review of fines for pupils who would be safer at home, review of working conditions for ECV teachers, it to be made clear that if a school sends your child home they are legally required to isolate.

If schools were to close I would keep dd1 home as she’s secondary and was actually really good at doing home school work - her state school support was phenomenal, can’t fault the teachers and leadership.

Dd2&3 are primary and I would send them in (dh and I are both key workers). We kept them home last time because dh was working from home and as our numbers weren’t that high it was just about manageable but this time it’s going to be harder and I believe the primary bubbles are controlled well. That said, it doesn’t sound like schools will close this time. France and Germany are doing the same.

My DD's school insist they wear masks in the corridors, make them wipe down their table with anti bac at the end of every lesson, have separate times/ spaces for each year group to eat, one way system in place, etc. etc. .....

And then her entire year group were sent home for 10 days self isolation about a week before half term started. To the schools credit they told us at 7.30am and had online lessons going by 8.45am but its still a crap situation.

I really don't know what they're going to do. So many children are having their education and social lives completely f*cked up over this and I feel so desperately sorry for them.

I don't know what's going to happen.

www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-news-covid-lockdown-tier-3-cases-deaths/

Downing Street press conference link above.

Cannot talk about the percentage Brie, just my ds - he caught it from school. He wasn't going anywhere and neither was I.

He didn't pass it to me, as I will still have some antibodies from it.

But that was debunked by a lot of Scientists and several have said this morning. Its best to avoid getting it because of long covid and as stated many times the number of women between 20-40 needing oxygen and therapeutics.

What has been debunked? What alternative is there? Lockdown doesn’t get rid of it, at best it just stretches out the time it will take people to get it. That does have some advantages; treatments are better now than in March so death rate is lower. But even if there is an effective vaccine this currently only going to be offered to half the population which means the other half get it.

Sorry post was wrong thread but still relevant although I doubt schools will be mentioned!

@SpookyNoise

Schools need to close to break the cycle of Covid.

Totally agree but it's a very unpopular opinion on here..... In my RL world everyone agrees.

The years that seem most affected are sadly the ones whose futures are most affected by not being in.

They need to really work hard to keep them open and in, my worthless pennies worth is to drop other years to part time physical part time home school and spread the exam years out enabling social distancing.

@EvilPea

The years that seem most affected are sadly the ones whose futures are most affected by not being in.

They need to really work hard to keep them open and in, my worthless pennies worth is to drop other years to part time physical part time home school and spread the exam years out enabling social distancing.

Agree @EvilPea. There is not a fair solution for all but it’s obvious carrying on regardless isn’t working.

*I know this thread is mainly about secondary (sorry Noble!) but couldn't let this go unchallenged.

SATS are an enormous waste of time. Particularly KS1.
If we want our children's (& teachers) mental health to suffer even more, yeah, let's keep SATS. As a primary teacher, I tell you now that teachers will be pressured to get children to 'pass' SATS and all the lovely fun stuff will go out of the window. As will all the ways to try and get children back into how to learn and enjoy it. As will proper, deep learning - SATS test what a kid can remember for a test, not what they can really do.

Even more so this year as the children have a hell of a lot of gaps to fill.

Keeping SATS will tell you one main thing - that young children have missed 6 months of school. No shit, Sherlock. And instead of trying to address this, we will be forced to temporarily try and plug gaps to pass a bloody test which will then instantly be forgotten. It's a total waste of everyone's time and detrimental to children's education.

As you were...grin*

Completely agree that SATs are waste of time, however year 6 is always all about SATs. Teaching children to SATs this year won’t be any different to normal. They never do lovely fun stuff or enjoyment of or deep learning in year 6. It’s always all SATs SATs SATs.

So assuming there is no plan to abolish SATs forever (which would be a good thing) I think that SATs should be kept this year. Let’s have the measurable data on the effect on children. Is the current year six 6 months or more or less behind compared to how those who took SATs in 1999?

Let’s get the data and use to to measure the impact of the lockdowns and other self isolation - nationally, regionally, on different sections of society. This can then be used to help all children, especially those most affected, in the future.

Even better, it can be done as a data collection exercise without any impact on the children or schools.

@marveloustimeruiningeverything

Our secondary still has a 95% attendance rate and they are only sending 'close contacts' home for the few cases that have popped up. Doubt it's sustainable seeing the numbers going up everywhere around us... and so many of these kids and their families have been out and about in restaurants, pubs, dinemas, legoland, shopping, etc ... all over social media socialising and out ... suspect cases will be going up when they're back in this week. Dreading my boys being sent home when it happens ... especially my year 11. He's been working so hard.

Pupils who have a Covid related absence are coded with an X ... code X is not counted as an absence in the school census. Someone who is coded X should be engaging in remote learning however this is not monitored with the code used.

95% would be representing illness / other reasons however not those off isolating or positive cases. This is the case with all schools published data.

How do you spread the exam years out? Where are the teachers??

@NoSquirrels

They could usefully start by admitting that this year’s exam cohort for GCSE and A level won’t be made to take exams - that would take A LOT of pressure off trying to keep them all in school under any circumstances. Hope & blended learning would be much less of a stressful prospect then.

The 2021 exam takers are so much worse off than last year’s- they’d at least had pretty much their full teaching and ‘only’ missed exams. The students in exam years this time missed all last year and keep getting isolated now. It’s horrendously stressful for them.

If the government could sort out the exam testing results shitshow and get a decent system then so much pressure is off.

I agree 100% with every word of this. My daughter is in Year 11. The poor kids are so stressed and anxious. They’ve been told to revise hard this half term for GCSE mocks as the exams may not go ahead. They missed so much classroom time in their GCSEs already. Some have had to miss more time this academic year isolating at home after family members got symptoms. They are also applying for six forms and choosing A levels. So many decisions that need proper support from school.

The threat of school closing is piling the pressure on making them and their teachers even more anxious: most of them know that in good conscience schools shouldn’t be remaining open, but how to get them prepared for mocks and proper GCSEs if no school? Miraculously there have been no cases in DD’s school. They are being very careful however but they know they’re on borrowed time. The govt needs to take the pressure off.

All this obviously applies to Year 13 too, who are also having to apply to universities.

Do the ONS graphs report their sample sizes that they are using to project? I only ask because my family is one of those being tested an there is just one tester that appears to be able to visit us outside the school day (so teen DD hasn't been tested for the last 3 visits and the testers commented that it was a common problem round here Somerset).

The situation seems so varied around the country, yet there seems to have been minimal effort to restrict travel like other countries have done.

In Ireland we are being told that school transmission is not a major factor, and that it is stopping households mixing that has slowed out cases...

Howsers
The reason that you cant ask for proof of a negative test is that people can go on shedding the (dead) virus for many weeks after they have had covid. Even though they are not infectious.

In September 2020 twice as many people died of ‘normal’ flu/pneumonia than they did of covid. So why haven’t we been doing lockdown every winter to save those dieing from flu? Even with all the precautions and the fact that people have the flu vaccination flu is still infecting more people than covid.

@Piggywaspushed

How do you spread the exam years out? Where are the teachers??

You take them from the other classes that are at home.

Ireland has masks in schools doesn't it?

But those classes need educating evil! I cannot believe anyone - on MN or elsewhere- would accept their child in , say, year 9 , not being taught because exam classes ahve been spread out!

@PollyPelargonium52

Ds is year 11 and none of his year got covid so far although a small number from other years but only one or two each time. However the classes have just 20 pupils in each class in total so that will no doubt help.

Can you be sure no-one has had covid?

I teach in a school that my nephews attend. My sister has been saying how she thinks the rate is really low, hasn't heard cases etc among nephew and friends.

As a staff member I know that we have had quite a few cases but they are not being reported to parents or the letter is only going out to the positive case and close contracts. PHA are sending home minimal students - to the point we have been measuring distances in our seating plans - students who are 2m 5cm away are not bein sent home even if they have sat near them for the lesson (60 min lessons). They are working on the assumption that students sit with the same person every lunch and break (this is near impossible to monitor) and also do not send home anyone identified via school travel. So if a student has sat beside a positive case on the bus / tram / train they would not be asked to isolate via school this would have to come from track and trace in my experience (and normally 4+ days later where they have been attending and potentially spreading the virus).

I think Boris should insist secondary schools all wear masks ie both pupils and staff. From now on. Or a lanyard.

brie those stats are crap. Please go over to the data thread, post that and people might (possibly patiently) explain to you why.

Sorry @Hmmph, I don't agree. You'd think they might be a way to measure progress, but that's not what will happen. Guaranteed.

Y6 DOES do 'fun' stuff. (Well, they do when I teach them!!) Fun, meaningful learning along with transition to Y7 stuff. Drama, music, PSHE, residentials, science & maths investigations, reading & discussing quality literature...etc.

The SATS gets in the way of all that. And the learning is temporary. They cram for the tests and instantly forget it, particularly by Y7. Pointless.

I really don't think that this year will prove anything data-wise other than that our 2020 cohort will 'fail.' What sort of message is that to our kids?

You can't even compare to previous years other than very recent ones. The primary SATS changed in 2014 to reflect the new curriculum & was an absolute carcrash as children had to cram 2 years of learning into 9 months. The effect this had on them was horrific. Children in floods of tears as they just couldn't do what the papers asked of them.

This will be what happens to Y6 this year if SATS go ahead. I wouldn't wish the mental pressure and frankly, for what?? To tell us what we already know?? Teacher assessments work just as well.

And as for the KS1 SATS ....

(Sorry for detail Noble. Maybe we should set up a SATS - yes or no thread!!)