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Secondary schools are fucked

467 replies

noblegiraffe · 31/10/2020 11:45

The latest ONS data for infection rates in pupils in Y7-11 shows that they are now nearly as high for university students, the ones who were getting blamed for catching it at pubs and parties.

The latest data for number of cases per 100,000 in each year group looks alarming, even more so when you realise that the latest column is an underestimate. The figures for Y11 in particular are horrendous, and this is a crucial exam year group.

Attendance data for secondary schools is going down each week - 82% according to the latest data (excluding those on half term).

On 22nd October an estimated 557,000 pupils were off school, either isolating, or with covid (this includes primaries, I can't see the data for just secondaries).

On 22nd October, 55% of secondary schools had at least 1 pupil self-isolating due to contact with a case in school.

There is, as far as a I can see, no discussion from those in charge about what to do about this. Schools are a priority, except when it comes to talking about them. Data is hidden, covered up or just ignored. People use arguments about primary schools (parents need to work!) to apply to all ages of pupil.

Secondary schools were set up with 'bubbles'. Risk assessments were based on premise that bubbles would be mixing, and would be sent home if there were cases. This was abandoned a few weeks into term when the DfE elbowed PHE out of the way and took over the the decisions about who would be sent home. Now only 'close contacts' are sent home rather than whole bubbles, which makes no sense in the context of what we know about covid transmission in poorly ventilated spaces with no social distancing. Kids who were told that they could mix 'because they were in a bubble' are now wondering why they're in a bubble but not in a bubble in any meaningful sense.

If, when it comes to any upcoming lockdown, the message is 'schools will stay open' and there is no distinguishing between primary and secondary, and no discussion about how this trend in secondary can be addressed, then be aware that any lockdown isn't going to solve the problem because it's spreading in secondary schools.

PS: I don't want schools to close but they shouldn't stay open as they are because the data shows there's a real problem with as they are. I do want a discussion about specifically secondary so talk about primary elsewhere. If you find the data scary then that's a problem with the situation, not me posting it. I don't want any anecdotes about how your school hasn't had any cases unless you put the word 'yet' at the end of it. If your school has masks everywhere that's great for your school, but the government says their use should be avoided in classrooms and their use in corridors is only mandated in lockdown areas. Schools are not all open in Europe.

Some suggestions: masks, ventilation, review of who is being sent home, regular testing (especially if there are cases), review of fines for pupils who would be safer at home, review of working conditions for ECV teachers, it to be made clear that if a school sends your child home they are legally required to isolate.

Secondary schools are fucked
Secondary schools are fucked
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Remmy123 · 04/11/2020 06:54

@noblegiraffe I don't believe we need this lockdown. Therefore I don't believe schools shouid close.

Hospitals in and out of London are not overehelmed they have a minute amount of cases.

Many many schools are doing well.

Why are there these persistent threads with 'data' wanting schools to shutdown when they dont need too?

We are locking down so schools can stay open. Stop with these silly threads!!

noblegiraffe · 04/11/2020 07:36

Schools needing to close is your interpretation of the data, Remmy

Mine was that more mitigation measures are needed.

OP posts:
RigaBalsam · 04/11/2020 08:24

[quote Remmy123]@noblegiraffe I don't believe we need this lockdown. Therefore I don't believe schools shouid close.

Hospitals in and out of London are not overehelmed they have a minute amount of cases.

Many many schools are doing well.

Why are there these persistent threads with 'data' wanting schools to shutdown when they dont need too?

We are locking down so schools can stay open. Stop with these silly threads!![/quote]
But yet several scientists say the lockdown could be longer if schools ( secondary) stay open so its a valid conversation. That coupled with the rising data.

Stop with the silly comments and let people discuss mitigations and how they feel.

Piggywaspushed · 04/11/2020 08:35

According to Johnson, we are 'locking down' to protect the NHS , not to keep schools open.

starrynight19 · 04/11/2020 08:42

Absolutely not a fair or level playing field at all.
Dd y11 is now starting her third lot of isolation since September.
So she is doing her mocks in three weeks and will miss all her revision lessons in the next two weeks.
Tier 3 area here.

christinarossetti19 · 04/11/2020 08:43

Noblegiraffe is right. Focusing the debate around schools should stay open vs schools should close isn't helpful.

The OP specifically says 'secondary schools' based on the available data. It's fab if your child's primary hasn't had anyone testing positive, but it's not all that relevant to this thread.

The opportunity for secondary schools to be given autonomy about how they, with reference to their their particular pupil/staff profile, buildings and local area, organise this years schooling had gone. That's what should have been done in the summer and probably would have if any educationalists had been involved in discussions and decisions.

But there is still opportunity to mitigate some of the risks in schools. Compulsory mask wearing, routine testing, testing of all contacts if there's been a +case, and upholding promises re: distribution of laptops/internet provision would be a start.

The first two could be implemented tomorrow.

Zandathepanda · 04/11/2020 10:02

There are a lot of doctors off work ill/isolating where I am at the moment (information from a doctor I know). I also know a ‘positive’ youngster who is doing ok but the person, in their twenties, who they think gave it to them is in hospital.

3littlewords · 04/11/2020 11:31

@Piggywaspushed

According to Johnson, we are 'locking down' to protect the NHS , not to keep schools open.
Obviously he feels the NHS will cope and won't get overwhelmed with schools open. There can be as many cases as you want as long as the NHS can cope its irrelevant
Piggywaspushed · 04/11/2020 11:33

Yes, I was just correcting the trope that we are locking down to keep schools open.

TheHoneyBadger · 04/11/2020 20:28

Yes all those irrelevant deaths and lasting complications. So long as the nhs isn't overwhelmed they're irrelevant?

3littlewords · 04/11/2020 20:48

@TheHoneyBadger

Yes all those irrelevant deaths and lasting complications. So long as the nhs isn't overwhelmed they're irrelevant?
About as irrelevant as any other death or lasting complication is these days that's not covid related that seemingly no one gives a fuck about anymore
Piggywaspushed · 04/11/2020 21:06

Oh don't be ridiculous. We don't get covid under control and other deaths increase too.

NannyMcphee39 · 04/11/2020 21:22

@Remmy123

Amazing how so many people seem to know more than these eminent scientists!

Quite incredible.

herecomesthsun · 05/11/2020 11:57

The eminent scientists have different opinions.

There is the largely discredited Great Barrington contingent.

There is the official position that schools were not a transmission risk, which is looking increasingly shaky or downright untrue.

And there are the scientists from Independent SAGE, who are pretty eminent themselves, who are saying that schools need to follow the science in order to stay open (I tend to agree with the last lot).

nicky41 · 24/11/2020 15:46

Totally agree with this. My husband and I are both home with covid, almost certainly caught in the large secondary where we work. Despite our best efforts our children have woken up with sore throats today (just as our isolation period ends) and so have been tested. We now could be isolating again. Our school has had a flurry of cases in the days following ours and has had to shut entirely. Over half of secondaries in our LA are fully or partially shut. Of those still open, they are only a case or two away from being shut down. Given the recent rise in cases the local public health team have now stated that whenever a pupil tests positive the whole class including the teacher will have to isolate. I agree with this decision, but it will cause chaos and may mean my family and many others barely leaves the house this winter. This is not fair.

The government are crippling the system by refusing to acknowledge the problem. If we were allowed to plan a blended learning system with rotas we could probably keep schools open much more consistently. All children would then get some regular face to face teaching time, and work set to carry on with whilst at home. We could also continue to offer care for key worker children. When outbreaks force ad hoc closures families are left with zero childcare. If home learning is planned we can do it well. If it is sprung on us we can't offer much. I know that a lot of schools did not offer much in the big lockdown, but my school, in any case, has learnt from that.

The disparity between the experiences of different children is continuing to grow. I doubt exams will go ahead, and if they do they will be massively unfair. Teacher assessment brings its own raft of problems. I am so mad about the governments refusal to even consider changing the status quo. An ex teaching colleague of mine and another young teacher from within the academy chain I work for passed away due to covid during the first wave. I know of children who have lost parents. I hope there do not need to be more deaths before this is addressed.

In my opinion, this is what should be in the press, not nonsense about how many people we will be allowed round for xmas dinner.

Audacity7 · 24/11/2020 16:24

Totally agree with you ! It’s scandalous isn’t it. I just wish there was acknowledgment of the reality in schools and realistic planning rather than ignoring the problem and hoping it goes away, leaving staff stressed and disillusioned.

noblegiraffe · 24/11/2020 16:30

Unfortunately this thread was posted in October and due to inaction on the part of the government, the situation is now much worse.

Latest thread on the situation in secondary schools is here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4081620-Secondary-schools-are-totally-stuffed-WELL-RESPECTED-SCIENTISTS-ADMIT

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