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Secondary schools are fucked

467 replies

noblegiraffe · 31/10/2020 11:45

The latest ONS data for infection rates in pupils in Y7-11 shows that they are now nearly as high for university students, the ones who were getting blamed for catching it at pubs and parties.

The latest data for number of cases per 100,000 in each year group looks alarming, even more so when you realise that the latest column is an underestimate. The figures for Y11 in particular are horrendous, and this is a crucial exam year group.

Attendance data for secondary schools is going down each week - 82% according to the latest data (excluding those on half term).

On 22nd October an estimated 557,000 pupils were off school, either isolating, or with covid (this includes primaries, I can't see the data for just secondaries).

On 22nd October, 55% of secondary schools had at least 1 pupil self-isolating due to contact with a case in school.

There is, as far as a I can see, no discussion from those in charge about what to do about this. Schools are a priority, except when it comes to talking about them. Data is hidden, covered up or just ignored. People use arguments about primary schools (parents need to work!) to apply to all ages of pupil.

Secondary schools were set up with 'bubbles'. Risk assessments were based on premise that bubbles would be mixing, and would be sent home if there were cases. This was abandoned a few weeks into term when the DfE elbowed PHE out of the way and took over the the decisions about who would be sent home. Now only 'close contacts' are sent home rather than whole bubbles, which makes no sense in the context of what we know about covid transmission in poorly ventilated spaces with no social distancing. Kids who were told that they could mix 'because they were in a bubble' are now wondering why they're in a bubble but not in a bubble in any meaningful sense.

If, when it comes to any upcoming lockdown, the message is 'schools will stay open' and there is no distinguishing between primary and secondary, and no discussion about how this trend in secondary can be addressed, then be aware that any lockdown isn't going to solve the problem because it's spreading in secondary schools.

PS: I don't want schools to close but they shouldn't stay open as they are because the data shows there's a real problem with as they are. I do want a discussion about specifically secondary so talk about primary elsewhere. If you find the data scary then that's a problem with the situation, not me posting it. I don't want any anecdotes about how your school hasn't had any cases unless you put the word 'yet' at the end of it. If your school has masks everywhere that's great for your school, but the government says their use should be avoided in classrooms and their use in corridors is only mandated in lockdown areas. Schools are not all open in Europe.

Some suggestions: masks, ventilation, review of who is being sent home, regular testing (especially if there are cases), review of fines for pupils who would be safer at home, review of working conditions for ECV teachers, it to be made clear that if a school sends your child home they are legally required to isolate.

Secondary schools are fucked
Secondary schools are fucked
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Thread gallery
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motherrunner · 31/10/2020 14:04

@wuwubaba

Hi NOBLE,

I hope that you do not feel that we are insulting you.

Is great that you have all these information to let everybody makes an informed decision.

My son was tested because I am a healthcare provider, I assumed the same as most of the other kids in the bubble. Some trusts do enforce the rules that offspring of their staff, who been in contact with positive case, must get tested before they themselves are clear to work, even if they are asymptomatic.

I am curious about your mental health, are you coping with having to work in the school, facing your students during this climate? Noble please look after yourself.

Because you are clearly aren't. I hope that your negativity with regards to school opening have not affecting your students, who in this time of need require a strong authority figure to placate and nurture their already fragile mental state.

These year 11 kids need someone who is willing to fight with them, not someone who is afraid of their corona status.

I don’t think I’ve ever read anything and condescending.

Just because some mine voices real concerns, supported with unequivocal data, you assume they have a ‘fragile’ mental state?

Just like in times ago women were labelled as hysterical and they dared to speak out.

3littlewords · 31/10/2020 14:05

I think the scary part is we know that secondary schools aren't covid safe but we also know that these years in school are paramount for our children's futures. Especially the older secondary pupils they cant get this time back, whether it's stay as we are, total remote learning or part time/blended learning theres flaws and significant downsides to each scenario. Im sad for our children that this situation will impact their futures in more ways than one.
Everyone wants the same thing but honestly I really don't know how this can be achieved without some collateral damage in one way or another. Sad

StaffAssociationRepresentative · 31/10/2020 14:07

Someone on the news had a good analogy of keeping schools open during a lockdown... It is like locking the door when you leave the house to prevent burglars entering, but leaving the windows open for fresh air ...

SansaSnark · 31/10/2020 14:07

@EvilPea

Schools seem to differ so much in approach. I’m in a grammar area so a lot of families have kids in different secondaries.

One is social distancing, specific seats on coaches, open windows, outside lessons, enforced mask wearing, keeping movement to a minimum, no year group mixing. They’ve had lots of cases

The other
No social distancing, no enforced mask wearing, sit where you like on the bus, whole year group photos squashed together, closed windows, no outside lessons.
Yet that one has few cases.

I can’t help feeling some are being more honest than others.

I'm not sure it's honestly, necessarily, but also the willingness of parents to accept pupils need to be tested/self isolate.

We have had a growing issue at school with parents who are clearly trying to avoid actively testing their children, even when sent home with a cough or a temperature. I do understand- 2 weeks self isolation is tough for families, especially those struggling financially BUT I worry it is keeping our case numbers artifically low.

In theory, the school where I work has had no cases, but I don't think we can be sure of this, because there are a lot of kids who should have been tested who haven't been. There have been cases among parents and in local primary schools, so it is in the community.

We have been using year group "zones" in school so far, but after half term the plan was to resume most year groups moving around the school and just isolating the sixth form. We are keeping staggered lunches and staggered finishes and separate entrances into school though. We have also enforced mask wearing in communal spaces.

It'll be interesting to see if plans go ahead as they were on Monday, or if we will go back to staying in our zones.

Mintychoc1 · 31/10/2020 14:08

@SpookyNoise

Schools need to close to break the cycle of Covid.
no they don't
noblegiraffe · 31/10/2020 14:08

Ok so we’ve had:
‘oh no not another thread’
‘Hope you’re not a teacher’
‘Worried about your mental health’
‘Worried you’re affecting your students’ mental health’

None of which is addressing or changing the figures on the graphs in the OP.

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noblegiraffe · 31/10/2020 14:11

@StaffAssociationRepresentative

Someone on the news had a good analogy of keeping schools open during a lockdown... It is like locking the door when you leave the house to prevent burglars entering, but leaving the windows open for fresh air ...
Leaving the windows open for fresh air would help protect the burglars from covid. Commendable.
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wuwubaba · 31/10/2020 14:12

Which part of my sentences have I laid the blame on the teachers?

I think they are doing a fantastic job, even before the pandemic. But I do get the feeling that some teachers are reluctant to go back to school, so they are actively trying to get the school close down.

What I suggested above regarding the masks, is not just wearing the masks, but wearing them and discarding them PROPERLY.

Everybody has a duty to follow the rules and regulations. But closing the school is intermittently is clearly not one of them.

CallmeAngelina · 31/10/2020 14:13

@Teateaandmoretea, I have infinitely more faith in @noblegiraffe 's commitment to our school children's continued education than anyone who still believes that to have opened up schools in the reckless way our government has, is a good thing.

Hopeisnotastrategy · 31/10/2020 14:13

There was a really good article in the Spanish press this week about how it spreads in schools. Ventilation and short sessions are key.

It's in English.

english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

CallmeAngelina · 31/10/2020 14:14

"But I do get the feeling that some teachers are reluctant to go back to school, so they are actively trying to get the school close down."

You "get the feeling?" Really? And we are meant to give that headspace?

CallmeAngelina · 31/10/2020 14:15

@wuwubaba, I've read some passive-aggressive nonsense on here before, but your ridiculous post just now possibly wins the prize.

StaffAssociationRepresentative · 31/10/2020 14:16

Someone on the news had a good analogy of it. It is like locking the door when you leave the house to prevent burglars entering, but leaving the windows open for fresh air ...

Yes they do if this is the analogy to be used

StaffAssociationRepresentative · 31/10/2020 14:17

[quote Hopeisnotastrategy]There was a really good article in the Spanish press this week about how it spreads in schools. Ventilation and short sessions are key.

It's in English.

english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html[/quote]
But some parents don’t like the ventilation idea. We have had threads on that!

Teateaandmoretea · 31/10/2020 14:18

@CallmeAngelina having read quite a lot of her posts, we will have to agree to disagree on that

Beebityboo · 31/10/2020 14:19

How can we be prosecuted and fined for not wanting to send our children in to this mess? Are other countries threatening parents in this way?

SpookyNoise · 31/10/2020 14:20

@Mintychoc1I am currently ill with COVID, having caught it in school. I really think that any lockdown put it place is pointless if schools are open.

noblegiraffe · 31/10/2020 14:21

From my OP: PS: I don't want schools to close but they shouldn't stay open as they are because the data shows there's a real problem with as they are.

And yet people still claim I want schools to close. Hmm What’s their agenda?

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MrsDanvers123 · 31/10/2020 14:22

WUWUBABA - seriously? I am sure you are posting with best intentions, but making spurious,condescending and unpleasant personal attacks really gives the impression that you are clutching at straws in an attempt to bolster your own agenda. The data can be ignored, but really shouldn't be if we are to make any headway in finding a way to work and live over the coming months.

RubyViolet · 31/10/2020 14:22

@wuwubaba. Your name calling and assumptions on another posters mental health reflect very badly on you. Since when has it become acceptable to call out someone’s mental health status because you disagree with them..
Look in the mirror, l think you are losing the plot.

FredtheFerret · 31/10/2020 14:22

My Y11 DD has just shut her bubble for 14 days with a positive test.

I teach - and I've also tested positive. I teach in a different school. I teach 10 different classes across 5 different year group. It will be interesting to see if I've closed all those five bubbles.

I've had an hour (often 3 times a week) in a classroom with some of those pupils. Unventilated. Not socially distanced, because we can't. I wonder if the school will tell them I'm positive. Neither of us has been anywhere except school. We're not sure where we caught it.

She also travels on a bus to school, with other year groups on it.

StaffAssociationRepresentative · 31/10/2020 14:23

Too many people have been adapting the rules to suit their own needs. We haven’t all been in it together. Have all of us on Mumsnet stuck to the rules? No we haven’t and that is why we are in the state we are in now! No point bleating if you haven’t followed the rules !

Devilesko · 31/10/2020 14:24

Noble

Thank you so much for all your threads during this difficult time.
You are consistently informing us and I do believe everything you say, but must admit to only just being able to follow.

FWIW, I believe schools should close for the foreseeable future. Kids being sent home all the time is worse for their education than being at home with internet access and/or printed work packs.

I have never been a denier but skeptical about the figures we were being given.
I've just heard of 6 deaths and 4 icu cases in my extended family, until today had heard of none.

wuwubaba · 31/10/2020 14:25

I am sorry if I offend anybody.

Apologies

noblegiraffe · 31/10/2020 14:25

It will be interesting to see if I've closed all those five bubbles.

Teachers testing positive don’t close any bubbles because we’re not part of any bubble due to scrupulously maintaining 2m distance.

That’s my prediction for what you will be told. I know it’s bobbins.

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