Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Secondary schools are fucked

467 replies

noblegiraffe · 31/10/2020 11:45

The latest ONS data for infection rates in pupils in Y7-11 shows that they are now nearly as high for university students, the ones who were getting blamed for catching it at pubs and parties.

The latest data for number of cases per 100,000 in each year group looks alarming, even more so when you realise that the latest column is an underestimate. The figures for Y11 in particular are horrendous, and this is a crucial exam year group.

Attendance data for secondary schools is going down each week - 82% according to the latest data (excluding those on half term).

On 22nd October an estimated 557,000 pupils were off school, either isolating, or with covid (this includes primaries, I can't see the data for just secondaries).

On 22nd October, 55% of secondary schools had at least 1 pupil self-isolating due to contact with a case in school.

There is, as far as a I can see, no discussion from those in charge about what to do about this. Schools are a priority, except when it comes to talking about them. Data is hidden, covered up or just ignored. People use arguments about primary schools (parents need to work!) to apply to all ages of pupil.

Secondary schools were set up with 'bubbles'. Risk assessments were based on premise that bubbles would be mixing, and would be sent home if there were cases. This was abandoned a few weeks into term when the DfE elbowed PHE out of the way and took over the the decisions about who would be sent home. Now only 'close contacts' are sent home rather than whole bubbles, which makes no sense in the context of what we know about covid transmission in poorly ventilated spaces with no social distancing. Kids who were told that they could mix 'because they were in a bubble' are now wondering why they're in a bubble but not in a bubble in any meaningful sense.

If, when it comes to any upcoming lockdown, the message is 'schools will stay open' and there is no distinguishing between primary and secondary, and no discussion about how this trend in secondary can be addressed, then be aware that any lockdown isn't going to solve the problem because it's spreading in secondary schools.

PS: I don't want schools to close but they shouldn't stay open as they are because the data shows there's a real problem with as they are. I do want a discussion about specifically secondary so talk about primary elsewhere. If you find the data scary then that's a problem with the situation, not me posting it. I don't want any anecdotes about how your school hasn't had any cases unless you put the word 'yet' at the end of it. If your school has masks everywhere that's great for your school, but the government says their use should be avoided in classrooms and their use in corridors is only mandated in lockdown areas. Schools are not all open in Europe.

Some suggestions: masks, ventilation, review of who is being sent home, regular testing (especially if there are cases), review of fines for pupils who would be safer at home, review of working conditions for ECV teachers, it to be made clear that if a school sends your child home they are legally required to isolate.

Secondary schools are fucked
Secondary schools are fucked
OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
TheHoneyBadger · 03/11/2020 14:38

So is that 2% of all secondary 11-16year olds?That would be 5.6 kids per year 8 form year group at our school.

DownstairsMixUp · 03/11/2020 14:43

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

noblegiraffe · 03/11/2020 14:48

Or it could be said 'you're just basically wanting people to lose jobs because that's what will happen if schools stay open, due to prolonging lockdown.'

It's not straightforward, is it?

Besides, as we are talking about secondary, childcare isn't such an issue.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 03/11/2020 14:50

Surely the compromise is keeping secondaries open but with much more stringent measures.

Having listened to all the parties my pupils have been at over half term, parents could do their bit.

OP posts:
TheHoneyBadger · 03/11/2020 14:53

Huh? Talking about data = wanting people to be unemployed? Odd conclusion.

Not sure why a parent of teenager would lose their jobs if schools went part time or remote anyway.

Meanwhile businesses will actually fold due to schools being left open and therefore them having to have at least another month locked down.

3littlewords · 03/11/2020 14:57

If schools do close and they remain closed after 2nd December I will be letting my DS out with his friends in fact ill be actively encouraging it! If I can leave the house then, then so can he. I am totally against children getting the shit end of the deal again when they are least affected by covid and most affected by any school closures and lockdowns

Orangeblossom7777 · 03/11/2020 15:26

We have high cases here now (SW) and the MAT sent a letter today saying things they are looking at including

teaching is big groups in the hall
using support staff to cover absences
sending year groups home for online learning
using rotas
closing schools

in particular looking at our city as high cases here...

Orangeblossom7777 · 03/11/2020 15:27

ours have had to isolate as a pupil tested positive over half term- whole year group required to (over 100)

Remmy123 · 03/11/2020 15:43

Our secondary hadn't had any cases - wouldn't say it's fucked

Orangeblossom7777 · 03/11/2020 15:51

We didn't have any either then three letters in recent weeks

noblegiraffe · 03/11/2020 20:02

From the OP “I don't want any anecdotes about how your school hasn't had any cases unless you put the word 'yet' at the end of it.”

OP posts:
herecomesthsun · 03/11/2020 20:12

@TheHoneyBadger

So is that 2% of all secondary 11-16year olds?That would be 5.6 kids per year 8 form year group at our school.
The exact % of year 7 - 11 is very variable from area to area (so there would not necessarily be 5.6 kids from your year 8, for example Smile). However, in all areas, the % positive in this age group has risen from 1st Sept to 23rd Oct.

The % positive nationally in secondary school children has increased about 50 fold in that time (on average).

TheHoneyBadger · 03/11/2020 21:01

Yeah I know population stats don't translate to certainties at local levels but it sounds about right to me.

A rash of tests by parents when we had our first positive in year 11 resulted in 6 testing positive who weren't close contacts with the original case. I'd imagine if we had tested the whole year group, or any year group we'd find more.

Before going back we were being told a positive case in school would result in a mobile testing being sent in to do mass testing to assess the levels of infection in the school population.

Never happened obviously. Bit like the great summer catch up or the laptops and internet they promised.

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 04/11/2020 00:15

@noblegiraffe

From the OP “I don't want any anecdotes about how your school hasn't had any cases unless you put the word 'yet' at the end of it.”
They don’t have to say ‘yet’. They have to say ‘I’m a member of the SLT’ or ‘ I’m a member of the local health authority passing stats to the DfE’. If they aren’t either of those. They don’t, and won’t, know.
Judashascomeintosomemoney · 04/11/2020 00:16

(Regardless of how many threads they turn up on professing ‘no cases in my school’)

CountessFrog · 04/11/2020 00:24

I’m in a place with big numbers. Tier 3.

DD y11, three cases since September in her year. No known transmission to contacts (who all isolated).

Dd y7, no cases in her year as yet.

School seems to be holding up. Why should it close?

noblegiraffe · 04/11/2020 00:37

Do you think they should stay open in lockdown as they are with no extra protections given the data in the OP?

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 04/11/2020 00:52

@noblegiraffe

How’s this thread any different to all your others?

New data, Rainbow and an upcoming lockdown where schools are supposedly staying open.

What is the point of you coming on my threads?

Agreed. And I'm always interested in what you have to say.
CountessFrog · 04/11/2020 00:55

Well seeing as the alternative is some shitshow where the school pretends to be offering an education, yes. I might feel differently if school had done a better job earlier this year but the primary school offer was abysmal.

And seeing as our school is doing ok, yes.

And you think schools should close in low incidence areas like Cornwall?

And if you think it’s ok for Cornwall to stay open, where does that leave kids in exam years? Level playing field?

I would support schools closing for four weeks in December in order to open businesses, but only if my kids had some other way of seeing humans of their own age. As that’s unlikely, then, no.

bearfood · 04/11/2020 00:57

I'm a teacher and I've got Covid. Best friend is in same situation (different school). Feel pretty fucked right now if I'm honest.

noblegiraffe · 04/11/2020 01:00

And you think schools should close in low incidence areas like Cornwall?

I didn’t argue for schools closing in my OP. I think if they’re going to stay open then they can’t stay open as is though, because it’s not working.

People trying to make it a binary argument between open and closed are really poisoning the debate tbh.

OP posts:
Rockpapershoot · 04/11/2020 01:06

No one knows how each school is doing because the school level data isn't published.

Namenic · 04/11/2020 01:21

In terms of Cornwall - I though SW England was forecast to run out of hospital capacity earlier than other areas? Is this because of low beds compared to infection rate?

I don’t think any exams are fair at the moment - as some kids have had to isolate loads, some not at all. But I think probably the inequalities are better tackled by giving reduced tuition fees, free opportunities to re-take years and adult education. This would be better than all kids having to stop school because some kids have to (which they already do anyway due to cases).

Namenic · 04/11/2020 01:23

That is true - it would be odd to close schools before trying mask wearing and part time school for secondaries

SansaSnark · 04/11/2020 06:53

How is it fair to run exams when some kids had 4 weeks off school last half term and some had none?

I know of two schools in the SW that have just had their first confirmed positive cases btw. We are obviously behind the rest of the country in some areas but that doesn't mean that we won't be affected.

My school has actually relaxed things since the start of term, ironically.

I think a two week half term + then moving to a rota would have been a good way forward for secondary schools and it would minimise the number of kids being sent home at any one time.