Are we heading for another national lockdown

[thebeachismyhappyplace2]

Do you think we are going in the same direction as France and Germany? And do you think schools will stay open if we do?

A bit of lockdown to me seems the smallest price to pay if it saves just ONE life

Unfortunately I think this is very naive. There are plenty of things we could do to save lives but don’t because as a society we don’t deem it worth it. Please also remember lockdown costs lives.

I’m sorry for what covid has done to your family

@CoronaIsWatching

The NHS isn't close to being overwhelmed, not one patient in the Nightingale hospitals. We need to learn to live with the virus.

Maybe the Nightingale wasn’t opened because they didn’t even have enough nurses let alone doctors for the usual hospitals. March/April time hospitals were definitely overwhelmed.

I hope not, it seems the last lockdown was a waste of time

Uh? Why?

@CoronaIsWatching

The NHS isn't close to being overwhelmed, not one patient in the Nightingale hospitals. We need to learn to live with the virus.

www.mylondon.news/news/uk-world-news/first-nhs-nightingale-hospital-patients-19187176

@StealthPolarBear it’s the shops being shut that’s the killer.

Absolutely not, no. We cannot afford another national lockdown that would devastate our economy, education and the future of our young people.

We cannot afford to continue funding the NHS and public services if people are not working and paying tax.

What we do need to do is reintroduce shielding on a voluntary and funded basis until March 1st and really try to better protect care homes. Perhaps some testing capacity could be moved from schools for example.

@Grobagsforever dear God.

Ilovecheese53, I totally understand. I do get it. The government need to make staff safe though. My issue is school staff are being failed completely and hung out to dry. If schools stay open in a lockdown, we need to be protected as much as we can. There aren't many people who would feel safe teaching a class of forty 17 year olds in a high risk area without any PPE.

George, from the perspective of being a shopper, or do you work in one?

@Sirius99

I hope not, it seems the last lockdown was a waste of time, what is the government going to do this time during the lockdown to stop it rising again when lockdown is over ?

This !! Suicides are up and poverty will be soon

@Ecosse move testing capacity from schools? What the 10 tests we get for a school of 1500 kids plus 100 plus staff. Cheers.

Thefairygarden I think some people think the last lockdown was a waste of time because they thought it was to eradicate the virus which it didn’t do. They don’t seem to be able to grasp that it saved life’s and gave the scientists and doctors time to make progress in finding treatments

The mood now reflects desperation around lost livelihoods more than it did in March. It’s a swing from fearing death rate going up.

Every time I hear MPs on R4 it’s reinforcing local tiers. They’ll stick with it and schools in.

When it comes to the NHS being overwhelmed, it's not just about beds or space like the Nightingales, it is about staff. It will be like,in
America where already they don't have enough intensevists to cope with the surge and GPs are coming in to try and manage severe cases, with a warning that because of that the survival rate for younger and fitter patients will start to fall.

We have to protect not just covid patients but all other patients and the overwhelming need for non Covid healthcare which is essential to save lives and wellbeing. We just can't do that if covid is surging.

We also can't keep even a bare bones economy or schools going during a major surge, so the economic arguments and the 'we need to get on with life' arguments are based on the false premise that only the restrictions and not the virus itself are preventing that. It's a bizarre argument people can't seem to let go.

I had hoped, and actually really thought, that a second lockdown wouldn't be needed and wouldn't happen.

Sadly I am now convinced it will. It's really a matter of when, and the sooner the better for it to actually help get cases down in the shortest time.

Looks like our restrictions in Scotland might be starting to work now, and that's with schools still open (although older secondary kids will now be wearing masks in class). I really hope it's going to be enough.

It’s not only 30 families children are mixing with. In secondaries, the “bubbles” can be the whole year, so potentially hundreds. And then each sibling is usually in a different year or even school. And there’s no distancing in classrooms.

I hope there will be a lockdown, including schools. But one that the government funds, without missing out people, to keep everyone ticking over for a few weeks until the numbers reduce again.

If we just ignore it, the NHS will be overrun and more people will die of completely treatable things if there were enough health staff.
Vaccines are coming, researchers are understanding more about how to treat the illness. We need to stave off deaths and long-term symptoms because that will impact on the economy far more than a few weeks of getting everyone who can to isolate and make things much safer for the people who can’t do that.

Seems to me that the Nightingale type set ups should be reserved for those close to discharge who need basic nursing care. And the major hospitals reserved for Covid and all other critical illnesses.

Maybe that was the plan all along. I don't know. But staffing is an issue all over Europe I'd reckon in this pandemic.

all pupils in school is the hill Johnson has chosen to die on.

@ilovesooty I think this is true, but teacher friends tell me that quite a few parents are already removing their children from school due to fear of them catching the virus at school (many of them families who are also looking after older/vulnerable relatives). Whatever the Government says about fines for children not in school this is the reality of what is happening. Added to that, most state schools where I live have whole year group bubbles so loads of childen at home isolating every time there is a case (which is becoming increasingly frequent). So we already don't have every child in school.

I suspect Boris will wait until the situation has become dire and either state schools are having to close completely for several weeks (due to cases across the school and/or staff absences) or huge numbers of parents are keeping their children at school. That way when he officially closes the schools many will already be essentially closed and he can claim to have wanted them open but it's everyone else's fault they can't be.

Much like the way he has imposed regional restrictions that are destined to fail and will then, inevitably, blame the normal people for not 'using their common sense' when a National Lockdown is needed.

I don't want a National Lockdown or for schools to close- but without proper safety measures in schools, workable contact tracing and easier and quicker testing I can see that it's inevitable. I suspect we'll limp on until Xmas, be given a 2 day relaxation of tier 2 and 3 rules to allow 2 households to mix for Xmas, then get a 'Look what you made me do' speech announcing National Lockdown. I've seldom wanted to be proved wrong more.

Yes, we need to either lockdown or certainly ensure 'tier rules' are followed.
Predictions for so many lost lives over the winter are very scary. The economy will improve eventually. Lives lost cannot be replaced.

Say we lockdown again, like march, and we close schools. How long for? And then what? Because we open up again and then er, well this happens again doesnt it?
What then?

@Ecosse

Absolutely not, no. We cannot afford another national lockdown that would devastate our economy, education and the future of our young people.

We cannot afford to continue funding the NHS and public services if people are not working and paying tax.

What we do need to do is reintroduce shielding on a voluntary and funded basis until March 1st and really try to better protect care homes. Perhaps some testing capacity could be moved from schools for example.

Can you explain what you mean by moving testing capacity from schools?

@ForthPlace

Yes, we need to either lockdown or certainly ensure 'tier rules' are followed. Predictions for so many lost lives over the winter are very scary. The economy will improve eventually. Lives lost cannot be replaced.

Well said.

I can add to the above as I see data return for schools. Yes, attendance continue to drop as either children are ill, are in isolation or parents continue to keep their own children safe.

We also can't keep even a bare bones economy or schools going during a major surge, so the economic arguments and the 'we need to get on with life' arguments are based on the false premise that only the restrictions and not the virus itself are preventing that. It's a bizarre argument people can't seem to let go.

This. That's what i find really odd - the idea that if we do nothing to respond to rising infections (ie if we don't lock down, as that is our only tool until there is a vaccine), everything will magically spring back to normal, with healthy teachers ready to stand in front of full classes of healthy students, healthy nurses fully staffing smoothly-running hospitals, everyone going out and about to work and shop and eat out to return the economy to its pre-Covid state.....

It's some kind of bizarre fantasy. I find it very odd.

Whatever happened to the tier system for schools? I'm sick of bloody tiers!
There were different levels. Wtf haven't we gone up a level, especially in the tier 3 areas.

This fucking government are an absolute joke.