Are we heading for another national lockdown

[thebeachismyhappyplace2]

Do you think we are going in the same direction as France and Germany? And do you think schools will stay open if we do?

I suspect Boris will wait until the situation has become dire and either state schools are having to close completely for several weeks (due to cases across the school and/or staff absences) or huge numbers of parents are keeping their children at school. That way when he officially closes the schools many will already be essentially closed and he can claim to have wanted them open but it's everyone else's fault they can't be.

Yes. I think he will be 'forced' to close secondary schools first, then primaries will limp on for a bit longer (as babysitting services, as the lack of staff will mean no sensible teaching will be able to happen).

"A bit of lockdown" being worth it if it saves just one life is one of the more ridiculous things I've read, and I've read a lot of ridiculous things recently. One person's life is not worth all the other lives that even just "a bit of lockdown" would take.

People have lost all sense of risk assessment. Would banning all cars be worth it if it saved just one life?

@ForthPlace

Yes, we need to either lockdown or certainly ensure 'tier rules' are followed. Predictions for so many lost lives over the winter are very scary. The economy will improve eventually. Lives lost cannot be replaced.

I have 2 issues with this:

1. the lives lost by lockdown cannot be replaced either. The link between the economy and public health is very significant. Locking down will cost lives now and in the future.

2. it’s easy to say the economy can recover, but if you have a child crying because they’re hungry and you have no means to feed them you might not say it’s that simple.

@user1471530109

Whatever happened to the tier system for schools? I'm sick of bloody tiers! There were different levels. Wtf haven't we gone up a level, especially in the tier 3 areas.

This fucking government are an absolute joke.

I think it’s been filed in the bin with the Nando’s chart!

If only it was simply lockdown and save lives, stay open and people die. There are massive repercussions either way, that’s the fix we’re in. Lockdown would need to include schools, colleges and uni’s but the government don’t want to do this because not only will the businesses who have to close suffer but parents won’t be able to work with children at home, so open businesses suffer too. If your not at uni and a student you would want your accommodation payments back and a reduction on course fees if working from home, uni’s couldn’t take the hit. All these jobs gone and no tax coming in, what funds the nhs, police etc? Poverty, economic collapse. Not to mention MH effects. Alternatively stay open and have the nhs overwhelmed and a massive death toll. I don’t think there’s an easy decision.

But if we go into lockdown and numbers go down again what happens afterwards? We can't keep in lockdown forever as soon as we come out again numbers will go back up again. Will there be a third, forth, tenth lockdown? We can't just keep going in and out like that, we are just postponing it. Unfortunately I don't have the answer though.

I think better treatments are just round the corner though. So that will start to take the pressure off after say spring next year

That was the only tier system that made sense!

I get it's a balancing act. As do most of the public. But this sitting on your hands and not doing anything, going against scientific advice...argh! All this 'no lockdown, save the economy'. If cases get much higher there will be no choice! Do you really think people will be Christmas shopping on the high street if cases and deaths go as predicted?!

@Appuskidu my tag and quote didn't work.

I think the reality is that if schools and unis had stayed closed and providing remote learning we could have managed to keep everything else open with covid secure measures. The economy would be better off. It's actually a pretty tiny percentage of workers who rely on school to be able to work.

You could close down everything but schools and still have soaring numbers whilst trashing the economy for nothing other than political grandstanding and appeasing us4them selfish types who would rather tens of thousands of people die than little Johnny miss out on a month of school (which he'll likely miss out on anyway when bubbles burst and teachers are having to isolate due to being in contact with positive cases.

4 week closure of uni and schools and continued sd and Covid measures elsewhere could make a real difference to the numbers. Obviously total lockdown would do more but at the expense of us keeping gyms, pubs, cafes, etc in our local communities if they go broke.

I really hope that they keep schools open. In our county there were 87 positive tests from children in schools from sept to half term, I cant remember how many children that was out of but it was a very small number

@studychick81

But if we go into lockdown and numbers go down again what happens afterwards? We can't keep in lockdown forever as soon as we come out again numbers will go back up again. Will there be a third, forth, tenth lockdown? We can't just keep going in and out like that, we are just postponing it. Unfortunately I don't have the answer though.

If that’s what it takes we will have to do it that way unfortunately. Hospitals won’t be able to manage it’s catch 22.

*who tested positive

@TheHoneyBadger

I think the reality is that if schools and unis had stayed closed and providing remote learning we could have managed to keep everything else open with covid secure measures. The economy would be better off. It's actually a pretty tiny percentage of workers who rely on school to be able to work.

You could close down everything but schools and still have soaring numbers whilst trashing the economy for nothing other than political grandstanding and appeasing us4them selfish types who would rather tens of thousands of people die than little Johnny miss out on a month of school (which he'll likely miss out on anyway when bubbles burst and teachers are having to isolate due to being in contact with positive cases.

4 week closure of uni and schools and continued sd and Covid measures elsewhere could make a real difference to the numbers. Obviously total lockdown would do more but at the expense of us keeping gyms, pubs, cafes, etc in our local communities if they go broke.

If schools are closed but everything else is open kids aren't gonna be at home, they're gonna be out mixing. There's no way I would isolate my child if everyone else was allowed to go about their business as usual. Being isolated for months last time was bad enough. He'd learn fuck all because we both have to work but hey what does that matter eh.

@Ecosse
really try to better protect care homes. Perhaps some testing capacity could be moved from schools for example

1. There is NO testing capacity in schools - get your facts right.
2. So you’d say that the health of children and young people in schools, plus education staff, is far less important than the elderly in care homes. We’re not human sacrifices you know🤬🤬🤬

@TheHoneyBadger

I think the reality is that if schools and unis had stayed closed and providing remote learning we could have managed to keep everything else open with covid secure measures. The economy would be better off. It's actually a pretty tiny percentage of workers who rely on school to be able to work.

You could close down everything but schools and still have soaring numbers whilst trashing the economy for nothing other than political grandstanding and appeasing us4them selfish types who would rather tens of thousands of people die than little Johnny miss out on a month of school (which he'll likely miss out on anyway when bubbles burst and teachers are having to isolate due to being in contact with positive cases.

4 week closure of uni and schools and continued sd and Covid measures elsewhere could make a real difference to the numbers. Obviously total lockdown would do more but at the expense of us keeping gyms, pubs, cafes, etc in our local communities if they go broke.

Agree. Close the places where there are mass gatherings with no SD rather than businesses. Schools can teach remote for the period and have been told to prepare to ensure they are ready to do just that. Also ensure business where staff can work from home do so and are not made to go on purely to be present.

Save the nhs and economy so the children have it for the future. A few weeks of home schooling isn’t a big deal.

us4them selfish types who would rather tens of thousands of people die than little Johnny miss out on a month of school

Us4Them are bonkers but keeping schools open if at all possible is not. The government can prop up a lot of sectors by throwing money at them; it can’t mend the harms caused by lost education. That’s why other governments in Europe are also prioritising schools over other things.

It isn’t either or. If the virus is left to run then the economy won’t do very well either! People dead, in hospital, grieving, isolating etc.... isnt great for the economy either.

And yes of course the last lockdown worked, the whole point wasn’t to eradicate the virus it was to stop hospitals getting overwhelmed. Kicking the can down the road was the point! The longer we can delay a wave the better, the more we have new treatment options, potentially a vaccine etc

If you’re one ‘of those’ that thinks covid won’t effect you then consider if all the hospitals are full and you’re about to give birth/ have a car crash/ have a heart attack etc, there will be no room for you!

And for those saying 400,000 die a year anyway, what’s so special about Covid 🙄🙄🙄 the covid deaths are on top of those figures! Not instead of!

And I say this as someone whose dh has just been made redundant.

@NewarkShark- totally agree. People talk about “the economy” as if it is some separate thing, and with the implication that anyone concerned about it is a mercenary fat cat with no care for people’s lives.

The economy is what provides jobs, which in turn feeds propellor, keeps a roof over their heads and food in their stomachs. The economy pays for the NHS, the welfare state, the police etc. We should all be bloody worried about the economy. It may well recover in time, but that will be too late for many, many people.

Oh and a dd in year 11 and I STILL think we need a national lockdown

Education would only be lost though if the parents didn’t support it or ensure it was done.

@TheHoneyBadger I presume then that you think those of us who do rely on school so we can work (not ideal but it's a reality) should be compensated if schools close? Because I don't feel like I'm "selfish" for wanting to be able to work and pay my bills and feed my child, which I will not be able to do if school closes.

Hope not. Hospitals are not overwhelmed.

Someone said schools should close because they are prepared to educate them in different ways. I find this comment hilarious. Eh that will be falling to the parents again then who can home school and work from home at the same time again?!

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

How can parents who are both working full time and do not have a laptop or desk for their DC to work at “ensure it is done”?

@studychick81 exactly what I came here to say.. it’s just delaying the inevitable