Why can't people understand.

[Bailey0703]

It's NOT about Covid per se . It's about space !!!

If YOUR hospital has 30 critical care beds ... and YOUR granny /mother /child has ANY emergency that requires THAT bed / doctor ... but can't get in it because some stupid fucker thought THEIR need for going out to meet their mates was more important.. how WOULD YOU FEEL ??

Put yourselves in THAT position. What is YOUR priority ?

Money ?
Income ?
Job ?
Social life ?

Don't know about you lot but I would rather be on the street destitute , if any of MY children's lives were on the line Money doesn't come in to it...

I can say that as someone with no savings and £2.20 in the bank atm ..(renting) .. so no secret slush fund to fall back on ...

There's only so much living that can be put off before the conclusion is reached that there's no point being alive.

Jobs, exams, holidays, friends, family, ARE what life's about.

The rhetoric contained in OP's post is getting really stale now.

[quote gingerbread88]@tigger1001 yes! There is this awful blame culture of people testing positive like they have done something wrong or put people in danger. They've been unfortunate enough to catch a virus in the middle of a global pandemic, not been reckless. [/quote]
Exactly. The virus is behaving like a virus does.

All this stupid blame culture will lead to is people being reluctant to get tested as they won't want to be blamed or have people ask them why they caught covid.

Although the virus is behaving like a virus OP does have a point. Many people taking unnecessary risks, mixing households in Tier 3, refusing to even believe there’s a virus, travelling all over from Tier 3, don’t want to socially distance.

People do have some responsibility here but many would rather carry on regardless.

Yeah they would prefer to carry on regardless because life is finite.
I don't blame them.

For example, keeping 85-year-old olds from their families for months on end. Inhuman and illogical in equal parts.

I would be happy if Johnson stood up tomorrow and ended ALL of this. ALL of it.
I think the Prime Minister likes to be popular.
Well here's a way to be loved again, Boris, get the country back to normal and sack your robotic scientists who haven't a clue what life is for.

. I can't imagine telling my grandchildren about the year we decided to sacrafice the lives of thousands to go to the cinema, or to pay our bills.

Going to the cinema paying your bills are not exactly comparable though are they?? Paying your bills is pretty important...

Going to the cinema and paying your bills**

Treatscatscrave I think it would be more inhuman to have said 85 year old dying alone in a Covid Ward!

FFS!

@Bailey0703

It's NOT about Covid per se . It's about space !!!

If YOUR hospital has 30 critical care beds ... and YOUR granny /mother /child has ANY emergency that requires THAT bed / doctor ... but can't get in it because some stupid fucker thought THEIR need for going out to meet their mates was more important.. how WOULD YOU FEEL ??

Put yourselves in THAT position. What is YOUR priority ?

Money ?
Income ?
Job ?
Social life ?

Don't know about you lot but I would rather be on the street destitute , if any of MY children's lives were on the line Money doesn't come in to it...

I can say that as someone with no savings and £2.20 in the bank atm ..(renting) .. so no secret slush fund to fall back on ...

How is being on the streets destitute NOT putting your children's lives on the line?? So they're life could be in danger of hunger and cold as long as its not covid! Get a fucking grip of yourself!

No I don't give a shit about COVID anymore . I'm fed up of people who don't understand risk or that there is more than 1 cause of death.

@MrPickles73

No I don't give a shit about COVID anymore . I'm fed up of people who don't understand risk or that there is more than 1 cause of death.

It’s because there is more than 1 cause of death that I’m so worried.

The NHS struggles to cope with flu every winter. Flu and Covid this winter could be a complete nightmare for the staff.

There are only so many medics in this country. If they are all dealing with Covid cases there are fewer beds for other emergencies.

@cbt944 I do understand the definition and I did read past the first page, it was just a handy c&p.

Of course the Holocaust was about eugenics re the Jewish race, the disabled, the Roma, gays etc. It was an attempt to remove 'undesirables' permanently. The part that involves murdering people of reproductive age and younger was eugenics as it was about creating a future vision.

For everybody else it was just plain murder in order to speed up the Nazi view of the new world they wished to create. However 'killing granny' is not eugenics.

Being a sociopath is different again. One might be one or the other or both but please let's stop confusing the two and can we please stop using the term eugenics incorrectly.

@SheepandCow the economic suffering was bad in SA before. Its off the scale now. I love how you blithely minimised it though because it wasn't your beloved covid.
Lockdowns are a first world luxury item.

The NHS is swamped every winter. If the government wanted to protect the NHS they would have used the summer when cases were low to create extra bed spaces in hospitals to cope with the covid demand. They could have given nurses the pay rise that parliament rejected (while giving themselves a pay rise) to ensure that staff retention meant those bed spaces had adequate staffing. As it is we have the nightingales which are only for ventilated patients, which isn't the best way of treating most covid patients and no staff to run them.

Essentially the government have seen due to the unexpectedly high rate of compliance back in March that it's easier to lock everyone down and then thanks to their contradictory messages blame the public for spreading it when they 'eat out to help out' or the students return to their 'safe' universities than it is to properly fund the NHS.

Shut the NHS, shut schools and the government can cut public spending even more. I can't help but feel lockdown play right into their hands.

They could have given nurses the pay rise that parliament rejected (while giving themselves a pay rise) to ensure that staff retention meant those bed spaces had adequate staffing.

They could also have recruited from abroad.

@WhenSheWasBad

I think a lot of people will only admit there is a problem when it’s happening that second and is in their face.

Some people won’t accept that the NHS could be completely swamped until it actually happens. The NHS struggles with flu most winters. This winter it will have flu and Covid to deal with.

I really feel for the staff in the NHS, hope they know how much they are appreciated.

I agree, those not following the rules/guidelines won’t see an issue until they or someone close is affected. It’s not just covid, it’s being treated for lots of other things from emergencies to life threatening illnesses.

I feel for the staff too, especially when they see people not taking it seriously and doing there part.

People keep going on about the social aspect but you can meet outdoors even in tier three in public areas so it’s not like people are not allowed to see no one ever. People have family all over the world and manage to keep in touch via the numerous means of technology and clearly cope.

@PhilCornwall1

Does anyone give a shit about covid anymore?

No. I'm bored senseless at the saturation point coverage on the news every day for months now.

It isn't that I don't think it is real, but I am horrified at how willingly people have accepted government control and utterly ridiculous arbitrary rules. These rules govern when or whether they can see their families and whether or not they can sit on park benches.

If anyone had piped up this time last year saying that such rules would have been put in place they wouldn't have been believed. They would have been ridiculed, but here we are in this ridiculous situation now and it happened much too easily. Virtually unopposed, or very little resistance.

Way things are going you'll get to be both on the streets destitute AND ill with covid, OP. woohoo.

Your kids should be safe from covid, btw.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss I'm not going to ask my 86 year old PIL's to sit in my garden in the depths of winter.

We see them a couple of times a week, at their request. They know the odds and they've decided what's important to them. None of us are attending raves, we don't hug anymore ie we take reasonable precautions but we respect their right to choose seeing their family. DH and I both WFH, go to our local cinema (which is empty!) and meet other friends for walks with our dogs. PIL's don't really do much at all. I believe that we've calculated our risk cautiously as obviously I don't want them to catch it if at all possible but I have to also think about their health overall - mobility, sense of purpose etc.

My MIL very firmly stated 'I'll take my chances with Covid because I was so lonely in the spring and I can't bear not seeing you all.' How can you judge us for that? Don't the elderly have a right to choose?

I know you're now going to come back with that I risk clogging up the NHS with that selfish attitude. But I don't think we are selfish giving our elderly relatives a quality of life. And no more selfish than all the other self imposed health conditions that drain our NHS constantly such as smoking and obesity.

Humans and other mammals are selfish - self preservation is kind of essential for survival.
Yes we should follow the rules and guidelines, but if it comes to the point where someone is asked to isolate for T and T, and they will lose 2 weeks pay (and dont have savings) then they might put the financial security of their family first.

@MaxNormal

They could have given nurses the pay rise that parliament rejected (while giving themselves a pay rise) to ensure that staff retention meant those bed spaces had adequate staffing.

They could also have recruited from abroad.

Yes! I'm sure not being totally over-worked in an over-stretched NHS would be as good as a payrise to many nurses. Anything to help the people we stood and clapped for. As it was the MPs got the payrise instead.

We keep being told we needed a lockdown and we wouldn't have been like Sweden because they have higher taxes to pay for a better resourced Healthcare system. But that is a choice. And ordinary people wouldn't have to pay all that much more in taxes, it would be the high earners and corporations.

Don't the elderly have a right to choose?

I get where you are coming from but if the elderly have a right to choose so should everybody else? Ill be honest I think we should all have the right to choose what "risks" we do or don't take but unfortunately that's not how it is at the minute.
Why is it ok for your parents to say they are happy to take their chance with covid but if anyone younger dare say that they'd be branded selfish?

Its either 1 rule for all or no rules for anyone we can't have it both ways.

I hate the way that the term "rave" has become a word that means anything from 3 teenagers on the beach playing music (local newspaper) to large scale illegal and dangerous money-making events.

I am sure this is intended by Government so that older people blame young people for attending "raves" rather than blame the Government for running a shitshow.

@3littlewords I hear you and I don't entirely disagree as it is the thin edge of the wedge as soon you start making individual exceptions.

However, I'm sick of us all having to go to the lowest common denominator. One of the SAGE guys yesterday, when questioned about Sweden, actually said it was because the Swedes can be trusted. I take issue with that for 2 reasons a) the inference was we're too thick and stupid to be trusted here and b) has he ever seen the Swedish youth in Faliraki?! They're no different to our youth.

I'm intelligent and capable of doing a risk assessment. My MIL is not in great health and we're seeing a rising creep in their levels of senility, just little things but they're mounting up. The youth at least have time on their side. We don't have that luxury with ageing relatives and I want to make the most of their time left as I suspect we're on the homeward stretch now, especially with MIL.

I will not sit at her funeral grateful that 'at least she didn't die of Covid because we stayed away'. And anyway, she has multiple health appts constantly so pretty sure I know where they're likely to catch it! I won't go against their express wishes re us as her family. Especially when their daughter lives in the US and so it is now incredibly likely they might never see her again.

Again, I'm ready and willing to take on the selfish label from anyone on here who thinks I am. I don't know you lot, so your opinion of me is irrelevant. My MIL's opinion of me as her DIL is a different matter. Our worlds are all really small right now. I'm taking care of mine as best I know how.

@Ibake children don't have a "choice" whether to isolate or not when their class is sent home. They don't get a "choice" to take a risk with covid because let's face it Covid is no real risk to the vast majority of children. When they are forced to isolate again and again it isn't for their own personal benefit is it? Its for those around them, so for those they are losing education and social interactions for to turn round and say "ill take my chances " is bloody big slap in the face to them

FWIW its worth i wish we call make our own decisions and risk assessments, I dont think you are selfish at all I think the scenario as a whole is selfish on both sides. No one is winning here everyone is suffering in different ways.