Why can't people understand.

[Bailey0703]

It's NOT about Covid per se . It's about space !!!

If YOUR hospital has 30 critical care beds ... and YOUR granny /mother /child has ANY emergency that requires THAT bed / doctor ... but can't get in it because some stupid fucker thought THEIR need for going out to meet their mates was more important.. how WOULD YOU FEEL ??

Put yourselves in THAT position. What is YOUR priority ?

Money ?
Income ?
Job ?
Social life ?

Don't know about you lot but I would rather be on the street destitute , if any of MY children's lives were on the line Money doesn't come in to it...

I can say that as someone with no savings and £2.20 in the bank atm ..(renting) .. so no secret slush fund to fall back on ...

[ssd]

@Whoooootaminute

Oh bugger off. I

Insult

[Redolent]

This is why the populace doesn’t make decisions about hypothetical situations like “what if my child gets sick and needs a hospital bed but they’re all full of covid patients?” A functioning healthcare system is too important to be left to people’s consciences. If hospitals are at a material risk of overwhelmed (and imo they already are, if they’re cancelling cancer care and elective surgeries), the government will eventually intervene.

It’s depressing because many more people will die from trivial /treatable illnesses if they can’t get hospital beds due to high covid occupancy, and high levels of staff absence due to stress / illness / isolation.

The EU commission is currently financing the transfer of patients across different European countries, depending on which healthcare systems are struggling to cope. Can you imagine the outraged headlines if that were to be proposed here?

[Bookrat]

And perhaps you can understand that if your kid has slashed her arms from her wrists to her shoulders then you would let her meet any damn mate she pleases any damn place she chooses. CAMHS was not there for her for six months. We followed the rules and 'saved the NHS' and no-one gave one single solitary fuck about the well-being of my daughter. A hospital bed will be fuck all use to us if she's done something irreversible through lack of a social life. Can YOU understand?!

[MiniTheMinx]

living is of course contingent upon actually being alive. Doesn't much matter what sort of life, or how exciting, how meaningful, or even joyous if you don't so much as have a pulse. Its the basic requirement, its imperative. I try to hold on to hope. Done so all my life. Get up everyday, try, keep going, move forward always in the hope that life will get easier, better, more relaxed, more adventures, more fun, more money, better health, more friends.......and hope I age backwards. Where there is life there is hope. That's why everything that could be done, should be done to preserve lives. After that we can only hope to figure out how we all move forward.

[Murcielago]

OP - what's the end game if there is no effective vaccine? And how do we pay for the NHS and all other services when the economy collapses from lockdown upon lockdown?

[fiddlerjo]

Op the problem is most people in this country only care about whatever they want and to hell with the rest of us. It's a very selfish country.

[MJMG2015]

@Eileithyiaa

Why did we even bother constructing the Nightingales?

How many beds have been used in them? Three?

Because We Went Into Lockdown.

Would you have preferred we got maximum use out of them?

FH.

[Pikachubaby]

Why are you shouting at fandoms on the internet OP

Do you normally rant and rave at strangers? Are you very stressed?

[MadameMeursault]

Money versus lives.

That’s what it comes down to.

[CoronaBollox]

Is my child likely to die or be negatively impacted for the rest if their lives if they caught covid 19. Unlikely. Will they be more negatively impacted if jobs are lost, homeless with no money for food lack of education and be the ones paying in years to come, for this total shitshow? Absofuckinglutely.

[MaxNormal]

That's why everything that could be done, should be done to preserve lives.

Funny how that never bothered anyone before covid. Millions of preventable deaths globally, many of them children. Out of sight, out of mind, not in the news, no fucks given.

[TableFlowerss]

@CoronaBollox

Is my child likely to die or be negatively impacted for the rest if their lives if they caught covid 19. Unlikely. Will they be more negatively impacted if jobs are lost, homeless with no money for food lack of education and be the ones paying in years to come, for this total shitshow? Absofuckinglutely.

Absolutely right!

[Rosadela]

Not sure op, I think money and my job are pretty critical in my life. Without them I would be destitute on the streets with my one year old DD so yes I’d much rather get coronavirus and have a 99.6% chance of survival than being homeless with a toddler

[Pixxie7]

Do we know the percentage of beds taken up by different age groups? At the moment I think the range is varied. We know children are at a low risk of needing hospitalisation. In reality I think a lot of the elderly are either staying at home or taking informed decisions to go out knowing their risk is higher. People were actively encouraged to go out for the sake of the economy.
Give people some credit.

[Chevronsoup]

@MaxNormal

I'd rather die than be on the streets destitute thanks.

Wow.

[Inkpaperstars]

People also don't understand that the choice isn't fighting covid or prioritising the economy, lifestyles etc. As covid infection grows it will take all those things anyway. Not just because of the elderly or frail. Bee cause even among the rest of the population case numbers will be so high that numbers needing time off work/needing hospital care/afraid will be too great to allow the economy, schools etc to function. These things are coming for you either way. It may be emotionally satisfying for some to think there is an alternative approach that allows us back to a more normal life in which a group of 'others' simply go off and die quietly while the rest crack on. That's not the reality of how it would work.

[CoronaBollox]

Plus I dont know why you're shouting at us. YOUR PM encouraged US to go out, spend MONEY. Keep the country MOVING, now we are dumb and selfish?


Fuck that. Keep your distance, wash your hands often and hope for the best.

[IAintentDead]

@MadameMeursault

Money versus lives.

That’s what it comes down to.

And just how do you propose paying for the things needed to save lives if there is no money?

Did your parents never tell you money doesn't grow on trees

[Murcielago]

@MaxNormal absolutely. Everyone shouting about selfishness has been aware of children dying all over the world/ floods/ famine etc. Have they spent their lives trying to help? Given up the things they enjoy to give all their time and money to save as many lives as possible? Have they done much more than drop a few pennies in a charity tin? Of course not. But that's what is expected for Covid - give up everything ( and without complaint) Now people fear for themselves and everyone who doesn't want to devote their lives to preventing Covid is selfish

[Whatwouldscullydo]

If someone needs a bed they need a bed.

Shall we chuck out all the smokers with lung cancer and the overweight diabetics and the stupid toddlers who choked on legs, I mean wtf r they putting it in their mouth for anyway..should let nature sort this out so we don't have stupid toddlers growing up to be stupid people..

Or we could just you know, treat people as they need it cos they could go to 50 marches with 10 000.people each time and 100 pub crawls and be fine then catch it from their trip to the chemist for their grans prescription.

Of you start thinking that you'd empty a hospital as alot is "self inflicted"

What circumstances would permit treatment?

[gingerbread88]

@tigger1001 yes! There is this awful blame culture of people testing positive like they have done something wrong or put people in danger. They've been unfortunate enough to catch a virus in the middle of a global pandemic, not been reckless.

[WhenSheWasBad]

And just how do you propose paying for the things needed to save lives if there is no money

This is a fair point, but Covid does exist. If we just open everything up, a lot of people will get sick. The virus itself will knock a large number of the workforce out of economic action.
Those who are asymptotic (there will be a lot) could end up looking after sick relatives instead of working / spending money.

You can’t just make life go back to normal again without a vaccine (God I hope there’s a vaccine soon).

[Ibake]

Here's an interesting chart for you. It shows deaths/million for 3 countries with very different lockdown strategies. Argentina, hard, hard lockdown from the start, us and Sweden. Look at where they have all ended up. It's a virus, behaving like a virus. We can do our very best in terms of distance and hand hygiene, indeed most of us have now for months on end but the attached shows that really it's in vain.

[SheepandCow]

Sorry @Bailey0703
I only read the first page (only so many erudite 'piss offs' I need to see). You seem to have attracted Mumsnet's most charming tonight.

They think they know more than the scientific and medical experts. Economic ones too - those that can see beyond short-sighted greed of the middle of next week.

We all know that the countries who took effective containment measures now have healthier economies. Fewer job losses.

It's impossible to have a well functioning economy with uncontained Covid.

It's the whiner attitude that puts more jobs at risk. Unlike the roll up your sleeves and get on with containing it Victorians in Australia. Their non whingeing efforts are now paying off.

[StatisticalSense]

I would happily see the NHS ration treatment and not just for corona virus. The NHS needs to stop keeping people alive at all costs and begin to accept that in many cases the best course of action is to minimise suffering while letting nature take it's course (or even helping nature along). It simply makes no sense to be spending significant resources on keeping 85 year olds who don't know where they are and can't get out of bed alive for another few years just so care home owners can continue to get rich on the misfortune of others and people can delay their grief by a few years.