Why can't people understand.

[Bailey0703]

It's NOT about Covid per se . It's about space !!!

If YOUR hospital has 30 critical care beds ... and YOUR granny /mother /child has ANY emergency that requires THAT bed / doctor ... but can't get in it because some stupid fucker thought THEIR need for going out to meet their mates was more important.. how WOULD YOU FEEL ??

Put yourselves in THAT position. What is YOUR priority ?

Money ?
Income ?
Job ?
Social life ?

Don't know about you lot but I would rather be on the street destitute , if any of MY children's lives were on the line Money doesn't come in to it...

I can say that as someone with no savings and £2.20 in the bank atm ..(renting) .. so no secret slush fund to fall back on ...

[SheepandCow]

That's rubbish @StatisticalSense
Wildly extreme descriptions. Quite insulting too, to the people of all the many different countries who've contained Covid. We're not talking about history. We all have a past. Every country. I'm talking about the here and now, and what needed/needs to be done to save lives, society, and the economy.

I think deep down you must know it.

I'm going to try very hard to resist the temptation to continue talking to brick walls. I'm going to look at pictures of lovely cute ostriches instead.

[TableFlowerss]

@SheepandCow

That's rubbish *@StatisticalSense*
Wildly extreme descriptions. Quite insulting too, to the people of all the many different countries who've contained Covid. We're not talking about history. We all have a past. Every country. I'm talking about the here and now, and what needed/needs to be done to save lives, society, and the economy.

I think deep down you must know it.

I'm going to try very hard to resist the temptation to continue talking to brick walls. I'm going to look at pictures of lovely cute ostriches instead.

Night then

[SheepandCow]

But if you want to talk about human rights records. Start with us. Remember it's only a year or two ago that the UN condemned our appalling treatment of the disabled.

[MadinMarch]

I agree with you OP.

I struggle to comprehend why unavailable medical care doesn't worry other people.

A psychologist on the radio today likened it to smokers not acknowledging the risk that it poses to their health. They make up a narrative that suits them instead, or just ignore the facts.

Sadly they tend to only stare the true situation in the face when it directly touches their own life.

Excellent post@ Chaotic45

I despair at so many people being so short sighted and not being able to see the inevitable consequences of Covid getting totally out of control. Scientific evidence suggests that it will.
There's a very high possibility that it will overwhelm the NHS and that will result in very few ambulance drivers, doctors, nurses, care staff and cleaners to deal with ANY medical emergencies in children and adults alike.
It will decimate the whole economy in any case in this scenario, and eventually we'll have to take stricter measures than those currently in operation to bring it under control, and thousands and thousands more people will have lost their lives that could have been avoided.

[TableFlowerss]

@SheepandCow

But if you want to talk about human rights records. Start with us. Remember it's only a year or two ago that the UN condemned our appalling treatment of the disabled.

I thought you were going to bed 😳

[SheepandCow]

On a nicer note, thanks and goodnight to you too.. I recommend you look up ostriches. They really do have very cute faces.

[SheepandCow]

@TableFlowerss
It's like a horror movie....I keep coming back... I'm off now. I think. I'll try.

[MiniTheMinx]

@angrysquirrel73

MiniTheMinx whilst we are staying home and saving the NHS etc what about those people who aren't getting cancer screening, cancer treatment, operations that they need. What about people who have been too scared to go to A&E despite having mini strokes / heart attacks? I think we will look back and see that non COVID deaths were disproportionately high and in the over enthusiasm to protect the NHS (despite having built new hospitals we havent used) more people died.

If people lose their jobs and freedom we will see riots.

We need to protect the overall capacity of the health care system, if it is overwhelmed with Covid cases it can not continue to offer other services.

If people lose their homes, and their freedom they will indeed riot.

The point I'm trying to make is this.

You say we must protect the economy to save lives.
I say the economy has been killing people in their thousands for 250 years.
You say we must protect the economy to save lives.
I say we must at all costs protect lives.
The economy is not compatible with this, so we must move towards a new type of economy.

Covid is not the crisis. Capitalism is the crisis.

Because Capitalism and its preservation sits in direct contradiction with the protection of human life.

Its killing the planet, its impoverishing people, its creating supranational super powers of corporate bodies, its created death and destruction of human life, animal life, causing war, causing human trafficking, homelessness, and immigration that can not be supported.

We have survived other pandemics, we have walked the earth for 2000 years, and at every point in time we have put our survival first, as individuals and as our tribe. Capitalism is man made, it no longer serves our purposes if it sits in direct conflict with our survival, as individuals and as our tribe.

[TableFlowerss]

[quote SheepandCow]@TableFlowerss
It's like a horror movie....I keep coming back... I'm off now. I think. I'll try.[/quote]
🤣😂 I’m off to bed now too as I won’t feel this awake at 7am why my DC wants to go downstairs 😫

[StatisticalSense]

@SheepandCow
Do I really have to explain why it wouldn't be possible for the British government to send the army out bricking up the doors of the houses that those who have tested positive live it?

[SheepandCow]

Aww I know that feeling @TableFlowerss
(I really am off to bed now!).

@StatisticalSense
What's that all about? Are you speaking about China? Like I said there are many different countries that took effective containment measures.

I understand the frustration. This mess is the fault of our government.

Of course our dragged out half measures are shit. It's going on and on and on.

We should have done what other countries did and got on with stricter but ultimately shorter measures.

Too late now. All we can do is mitigate the damage. If that's a circuit breaker - even if it's just to allow our HCP a breather, and to stop it spiralling further out of control - so be it. Perhaps something else. I'd rather get it all over with but that's me.

I trust the recommendations from the scientific and medical experts.

[mathanxiety]

@FlibbertyGiblets
The false premise here is your twin analogy.

Neither the parents nor the babies deliberately went out in defiance of scientific and medical advice during a period of time when it was more likely that they would catch some condition that would require the medical intervention that they had to get.

Someone who defies the scientific and medical advice and goes out to socialise otoh has consciously made the decision to jeopardise his/her own health and the health of others, in full knowledge that they might end up using a hospital bed that someone else might need.
.............
@20mum - very true.

[StoppinBy]

How will you protect yourself and your children from covid if you are destitute on the streets?

You wont be doing much social distancing then.....you will be sleeping rough under whatever roof you can and eating food from whatever source you can get it from.

Don't be so daft.

[ReneeRol]

Poverty kills, covid rarely does and only among vulnerable categories. We need to shield the vulnerable and take appropriate precautions but we also need to recognise the greater harm of collapsing the economy. That will destroy millions of peoples lives, particularly the young.

A collapsed economy means more crime, disease, stress related illnesses, hunger, domestic abuse, child abuse, exploitation of children and the socially vulnerable...

And after all that, the health service won't be able to deal with people because when the economy collapses so does the funding for the health service...

When everybody's destitute, many more people who were never at risk will end up in vulnerable categories because highly stressed, starved, diseased people have low immune systems so will become high risk with covid.

The chicken little reaction isn't a logical one.

[Ylvamoon]

@Bailey0703 - Thanx, but I rather die in my lovely soft bed in my dry home from covid-19, than on some wet, windswept street, with a damp smelling blanket round my shoulders.
(Keeping in mind, that the majority of people will recover from the illness!!!)

[Doryhunky]

Lots of hospitals stood empty last lockdown. Lots of people’s essential appointments are still indefinitely postponed when they don’t need to be. The government should fund and let us USE the NHS.

[yawnsvillex]

Yawn @Bailey0703

[user1481840227]

Why don't you understand that there will be other deaths as a consequence of this such as suicide and people who have had cancer treatment delayed or cancer screening delayed when everything shut down?

Countries are run like a machine...a flawed machine maybe but they were run a certain way to be able to provide people with what they needed for a society to be able to function. There was cancer screening systems and so on because they are NEEDED but they decided to shut them down.
People had their freedom which is what we have grown up with and have now come to need and expect for our mental health.
People were allowed to open businesses and run them and make money, now peoples businesses are shutting down through no fault of their own.
I mean I could go on but there are too many examples..

Apparently now all we need is food!

[NeonGenesis]

I think half the people on this thread are pissed. I'm jealous. Heavily pregnant and would very much like a bottle of wine right now.

[WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll]

I do genuinely wonder what some of the folk decrying the effectiveness of lockdown because of people's unwillingness/inability to co-operate or because it wasn't long enough would actually have preferred.

A sergeant major posted 24/7 outside every single front door, ready to bellow at you to go back inside unless you could prove that somebody would certainly die if you didn't go out?

Certain countries (thinking of one very highly-populated one in particular) that have dealt with the spread of the virus that is pretty much harmless for virtually everybody who gets it employed some strongarm methods that I very much doubt we'd be happy to tolerate here. Is that what we need in the UK - more violent and basic human-rights-obliterating enforcement?

[PhilCornwall1]

Does anyone give a shit about covid anymore?

[Topseyt]

Don't know about you lot but I would rather be on the street destitute , if any of MY children's lives were on the line Money doesn't come in to it

I don't believe you.

Being on the street destitute would be utterly miserable and desperate. Are you saying that you don't need money to keep a roof over your children's heads so that they are safe and warm? Of course money comes into it. To assert that it doesn't is ridiculous.

[yawnsvillex]

@PhilCornwall1

Does anyone give a shit about covid anymore?

I don't .... it is SO boring.

[PhilCornwall1]

I don't .... it is SO boring.

I wonder if the news presenters get into work and just think "here we go, same shit, different day".

[cbt944]

Eugenics is the practice of improving the human species by mating people with specific desirable hereditary traits. Therefore clearly has absolutely nothing to do with end of life.

Gee, you might want to look past the first definition on google and read a little more deeply into what eugenics in practice has actually looked like historically (hint, the Holocaust), and see why people who blithely write off anyone who is not them, who is 'other' - anyone who is in their mad, limited, and ignorant view, 'the vulnerable' - and who see these 'others' as annoying skittles to be knocked down so that they can, in their fantasy, just 'get on with normal life' - during a global pandemic! - have been described as both sociopathic and/or as eugenicists.