Soo.... England circuit breaker?

[BabyLlamaZen]

Will we follow Wales? I'm pretty sure we will at one point, jusr want to know when!!

Is half term next week for most English kids?

I think the main issue at the minute is the number of people going from tier 2/3 areas to lower risk areas like the southwest and spreading it there, so a circuit breaker over half term would have been a good idea to stop that from happening. At the minute travel is not advised from tier 3 areas but not illegal. If it was made illegal it would reduce the risk of spread to low case areas.

No.
It would have been competent and reasonable when re opening the schools to plan a 2 week half term.
Sadly reasonable and competent don't live here anymore.
Plus half of mumsnet would have instantly booked a holiday

@HesterShaw1
If you've been on my other threads than why talk crap about what I want? It's not me who wants to drag things out.

If it had been up to me, everything (bar international holidays) would be back up and running by now. Everything. Schools, hospitals, pubs, restaurants, shops, gyms, entertainment and sporting venues.

It's precisely because I want a quick return to normal that I want proper containment measures taken. We've dragged this out for 8-9 months already. I don't want another 8-9 months.

You're not making much sense. One minute you want to seal Cornwall off from the rest of the country to Keep The Covid Infected Out. The next you imply you're not happy about restricted movement. Unless I've mixed you up with other posters? I skim read whilst doing real life stuff. Apologies it that's the case. Perhaps you don't want any restrictions? So people from areas with lots of cases travel to less affected places? Because without a national lockdown (with border control) that's what happens. What do you want?

'Stay where you are' I thought was basic biology in all honesty. Not hostility towards tourists. I was under the impression that viruses don't have cell walls so they need a host. If hosts stay where they are and limit social contact - wherever in the country - surely the circuit breaker would work better? So if we stay where we are we may well be in a better position for Christmas.

For the record I live here for work and none of my family does. They came here (as tourists) in August for five days and that was it since Christmas. Incidentally I am not a fisherman or miner and I don't work in the pasty industry. Or tourist industry. And my DNA test is mostly east of England and Sephardic Jewish. But happy to be in Cornwall, even when Covid restrictions and arrows are ignored by visitors.

Perhaps we haven't "overcome" anything like London and other densely populated places, but cases here continued to rise into September and then since have declined.

And last time I checked the weather it was going to rain all week. Quite frankly the east of England is better for climate. Or maybe Turkey (Sephardic Jewish, see?)

@Coasterfan

I think the main issue at the minute is the number of people going from tier 2/3 areas to lower risk areas like the southwest and spreading it there, so a circuit breaker over half term would have been a good idea to stop that from happening. At the minute travel is not advised from tier 3 areas but not illegal. If it was made illegal it would reduce the risk of spread to low case areas.

We can't stop people travelling from tier 2/3 areas unless intentional travel is restricted. That's a human rights issue waiting to happen....no travel into 'safe' areas from Liverpool, Manchester, etc to protect people in the 'safe' areas. But travel ok from abroad into Liverpool, Manchester, etc - making any tier 3 restrictions pointless. We can't have selected parts of the country given protection others aren't.

Not sure where you've got separatism from @SheepandCow.

The fact is that it would be irresponsible of the government to allow countrywide travel to go on during half term if covid cases are out of control.

For everywhere in the UK that's a problem. But for areas like Cornwall that are extremely popular tourist destinations, the conversation comes up more readily.

And there's nowhere else in the UK that saw quite the unprecedented tourist season this summer that Cornwall saw. It was a success, because it closely followed a national lockdown, so very little covid transmission happened at all.

That just isn't the case now. If people from all over the country come together in Cornwall next week, common sense would say that it's far more likely to cause covid cases to rise further (both locally and nationally).

Is that a good idea? Well, no. Can we do it safely, keep case rises to a minimum, and support the local economy? Maybe. Time will tell.

@OrangeSamphire
I agree. It's highly irresponsible of the government to allow non essential travel right now. Anywhere in the country.
Yes we need to take urgent containment measures including nationwide restrictions. However, this is only worth doing if non essential intentional travel is also restricted.

You say (and I agree) that it's irresponsible to allow travel - presumably to stop people spreading Covid. This equally applies to international travel. We can't tell people in Liverpool and other tier 2/3 areas to stay away from Cornwall, whilst at the same time allowing unrestricted travel from abroad into Liverpool.

There isn't unrestricted travel from abroad though. There are travel corridors. And anywhere outside those (ie places with high covid rates), you have to isolate for 14 days on arrival.

To be honest @OrangeSamphire I think you get that attitude a lot on here about the 'Cornish' but what people don't know, when they don't live here, is the general rudeness of some visitors behaving in an entitled manner. In Charlestown the parish council painted arrows on each pavement, up and down, to get to the harbour and an awful lot of tourists completely ignored them. Yes maybe slightly irksome, but had they carried Covid they would be breathing in my face as they passed me. When I once told people on the wrong pavement that they were, indeed, on the wrong pavement they looked at me as if I was extremely odd and as if they just hadn't seen the eyesore of yellow arrows parading down the pavements.. Not wearing face masks in an enclosed space "because I'm buying an ice cream" and the general impression the locals should be grateful they decided to spend their sterling here rather than buying Euros. Hopefully your experiences over the summer were more positive. But yes I'm sure the tourist industry is forever indebted to them.

@slidingdrawers

"Though Wales numbers better than England's..."

Wales figures are currently slightly higher than England per 100,000 (1149.8 vs 1117.9).

A nationwide circuit breaker needs timing optimally to work effectively. The local restrictions will only work for so long imo. When hospitals in higher case areas become full and start to overflow to other areas, this is when I suspect it'll happen.

Those are the whole pandemic numbers. Current Welsh numbers are better than the English ones. The most recent stable figures are for 30/09 to 13/10 and are: England 303.3 NI 615.4 Scotland 256.9 Wales 245.1 (all cases per 100k population) Wales has had bad times, but is more on top of it recently. The lockdown is to ensure that continues. Acting before utter disaster.

It was hard work in our village over the summer too @CousinLucy.

Mainly because it seemed a great deal of holidaymakers seemed celebratory to be 'away from the virus' and that left some locals feeling quite anxious.

There were some stand offs in our village shop that got quite unpleasant.

The sheer volume of additional people was difficult to deal with on a daily basis and that would have been the case without covid. With it, there was just an extra negative vibe.

The Welsh and Irish circuit breakers are keeping schools open at least.
Those saying you won't comply, are you just gonna sit in a field with a bunch of strangers touching each other cos everywhere else will be closed and if it goes like Ireland you won't even be able to Travel very far

First wave, where I live we had virtually no cases but locked down for the good of the country. I'm in the North of England. It seemed then that most cases were in the south east. Second wave, hits Northern areas worst. Southerners response. We must keep those evil, disease ridden Northerners out of the South. Definitely, not the were all in it together of the first wave. More let's protect ourselves and destroy the income and lives of millions of people, as long as we are OK. We only meant we're in together when it affects us!

@Chestnutacorns123

First wave, where I live we had virtually no cases but locked down for the good of the country. I'm in the North of England. It seemed then that most cases were in the south east. Second wave, hits Northern areas worst. Southerners response. We must keep those evil, disease ridden Northerners out of the South. Definitely, not the were all in it together of the first wave. More let's protect ourselves and destroy the income and lives of millions of people, as long as we are OK. We only meant we're in together when it affects us!

‘Seemed’ being the operative word. We didn’t have the testing in place back then to be able to have a targeted lockdown. Now we do. I don’t get the attitude of ‘it’s not fair - we are locked down so everyone else should be’ It sucks. But it is what it is. No sense locking down the entire country if it is not needed.

@Chestnutacorns123

First wave, where I live we had virtually no cases but locked down for the good of the country. I'm in the North of England. It seemed then that most cases were in the south east. Second wave, hits Northern areas worst. Southerners response. We must keep those evil, disease ridden Northerners out of the South. Definitely, not the were all in it together of the first wave. More let's protect ourselves and destroy the income and lives of millions of people, as long as we are OK. We only meant we're in together when it affects us!

‘Seemed’ being the operative word. We didn’t have the testing in place back then to be able to have a targeted lockdown. Now we do. I don’t get the attitude of ‘it’s not fair - we are locked down so everyone else should be’ It sucks. But it is what it is. No sense locking down the entire country if it is not needed.

@Chestnutacorns123
I can understand your sentiment - except that don't bung all the south in together. Londoners in particular have solidarity with you.

That said the restriction measures taken in March weren't to protect the south. They came too late for a start. If anything they protected the lesser affected areas by stopping the spread.

This regional division and resentment is a convenient distraction tactic on the part of the government. I fell for it myself today on this thread and apologise for that. I should know better.

Viruses travel. People live and work across regions. Society and the economy is interlinked nationally.

We need a coherent joined up national approach.

@OrangeSamphire sorry to hear that.

@SheepandCow exactly. This is a national problem and I didn't mean to lump every southerner together but this seems to be the general tone of the thread, Northern bashing sprinkled with I'm alright Jack. We need to support everyone.

@ethelfleda you have missed my point entirely. There is a definite lack of any empathy for people affected at the moment by severe restrictions. The only thing I'm hearing loud and clear is don't come near us in case you infect us. For reference, I am near high incidence areas and have been lumped with them restrictions wise.

@Chestnutacorns123
Yes all this division is horrible.

SleepingStandingUp: "The Welsh and Irish circuit breakers are keeping schools open at least."

That is precisely why the whole circuit-break won't work. That's a major source of spread right there. Yes, it's a nightmare all-round, but either they want to limit spread or they don't. Regardless of the childcare needs, the mental health implications, the loss of more effective learning; the bottom line is that schools being open, any schools, means that there is a large gap in the flood defences.

@CallmeAngelina

SleepingStandingUp: "The Welsh and Irish circuit breakers are keeping schools open at least."

That is precisely why the whole circuit-break won't work. That's a major source of spread right there. Yes, it's a nightmare all-round, but either they want to limit spread or they don't. Regardless of the childcare needs, the mental health implications, the loss of more effective learning; the bottom line is that schools being open, any schools, means that there is a large gap in the flood defences.

This, it’s economic suicide. SAGE have schools as the biggest spreaders. All this will do is destroy the economy, destroy business, destroy lives and it is a total waste of time. The pandemic will still grow and there will be no economy left.

I will be furious if England lock down like this.

Sensible tweets from one of the SAGE experts.

@ReicherStephen
The COVID 'tier system' is a good idea so badly mishandled that it is now worse than useless.
The idea was to have different levels of restrictions with objective criteria for applying them. This would bring clarity, equity and hence local buy-in.
But what actually happened...

First, the criteria for which area is in which tier has become morre a matter of political bargaining that case levels. Additionally the actual restrictions in the same tier vary between areas. So, rather than bringing clarity, things are more confused than ever.

Second, because it is unclear why some places are in the highest tiers, plus the fact that support for those whose businesses and jobs are affected is lower than under the March restrictions, the new measures have actually heightened rather than reduced the sense of undairness.

Third, rather than involving local Government and people, decisions have been imposed as diktats from on high. This has caused alienation and created paralysing argument when urgent action is necessary. If Government wants buy-in it must treat localities as partners, not vassals

Fourth, in the absence of adequate support, moving to higher tiers is experienced as a punishment and hence generates resistance. What is more, in a context where government equates infectiion with misbehaviiour and hence a basis for blame, it also generates resentment.

Fifth, and most critically, the Government has delayed so long that a local response is no longer adequate. It is almost a month since SAGE called for a national circuit-breaker. At that time infections were under 5,000 a day, tthey are now pushing 20,000 - a fourfold increase.

Another tweet from Prof Reicher. Worth noting.

Infection rates are up in every area and in every age group. Hospitalisations and ICU usage is sharply up. We are about to lose control of the pandemic and half-hearted actions won't get it back. The tier system was a good idea in theory, bungled in practice, now out of time.

@SleepingStandingUp

The Welsh and Irish circuit breakers are keeping schools open at least. Those saying you won't comply, are you just gonna sit in a field with a bunch of strangers touching each other cos everywhere else will be closed and if it goes like Ireland you won't even be able to Travel very far

Welsh schools are open, NI schools are not.

I wouldn’t be surprised, honestly. And it’ll be too late to make an enormous difference by the time it’s decided.
But we are definitely all systems go on preparing online lesson plans at my school “just in case”, and the children’s extra-curricular activities have emailed us to say they’ll continue throughout half term so they don’t lose any precious sessions if further restrictions stop their meetings or if we are fully locked down again.