I'm calling it - people aren't complying.

[TheFormattingIsWrong]

Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

Totally agree. We won’t be complying either. The sooner the government realise that lockdown isn’t working the better.

I hope all those deciding not to comply realise that’s they are increasing the risk of transmission to those they are choosing to see and are happy to live with potential consequences. I will not be breaking the rules as I couldn’t live with the consequences. In my view it’s many people deciding they are exempt from the rules that is elongating this (alongside the obvious issues with test track and trace).

I won't be complying.

So if a large proportion of people have this attitude, will they be prepared to have no health service, no social services, no police etc.

I don't blame those who want to see close family members for not complying when hundreds of families are linked every minuet of every day in schools.

I hope all those deciding not to comply realise that’s they are increasing the risk of transmission to those they are choosing to see and are happy to live with potential consequences

Everyone I see is prepared to accept the potential consequences, so yes, thanks.

So if a large proportion of people have this attitude, will they be prepared to have no health service, no social services, no police etc.

Sorry, where is your evidence for this hyperbolic nonsense?

I don't blame those who want to see close family members for not complying when hundreds of families are linked every minuet of every day in schools.

Quite.

Yeah I'm not complying either. Took my kids to my mom and dad's yesterday, I'm not having them go months without being able to see them again, my baby has already changed so much and they've missed it all. I'm also not spending the rest of my maternity leave on my own at home whilst my husband is at work and my eldest at school. They're still allowed their cleaners in their house which makes no sense to me if family aren't allowed, and I'm having to help them clear out my grandads house to be sold anyway which is an exemption under the rules (to facilitate a house move).

I really hope you are right.

These rules are literally insane. Manchester's infection rate is slowing. There. Is. No. Need.

The NHS need to actually be serving sick people, not telling us they can't treat people when they are sick.

I'm in London.

I don't know a single person who will comply with the no mixing of households rule.

The thing is that yes, if I passed covid onto my father (or whoever) and he died, yes I would feel bad.

But I would also feel bad if I'd passed flu, norovirus or chickenpox (he hasn't had it) on to him and he'd died.

Someone please tell me what the difference is, on a personal level.

It’s interesting how so many threads have blamed northerners not following the rules for our rates but the thread about London going into tier 2 had loads of people saying they wouldn’t comply. I suspect the percentages of people who do follow guidance/those who don’t are the same virtually across country but in areas with high rates obviously they’re rocketing as there’s just more virus about.

I don’t know what the solution is. We have been in local lockdown for months and I miss my family so much.

Sorry, where is your evidence for this hyperbolic nonsense

If a large amount of people don't follow the restrictions then health and other services will be overwhelmed. This is starting to happen where I live now. We have been told to stay away unless urgent.

What do you think would have happened without lockdown in March?

@lurker101

I hope all those deciding not to comply realise that’s they are increasing the risk of transmission to those they are choosing to see and are happy to live with potential consequences. I will not be breaking the rules as I couldn’t live with the consequences. In my view it’s many people deciding they are exempt from the rules that is elongating this (alongside the obvious issues with test track and trace).

Yes I realise this. I’m not seeing elderly relatives now so I don’t pass it to them so it won’t make any difference to me if there is no lockdown. Everyone else is prepared to take the risk and isn’t vulnerable so if we go into Tier 2 or 3 or there is a national lockdown I will continue seeing them.

Everyone you see may be happy to live with the consequences. But what about the people they come into contact with and the people those people come into contact with. Should they have to live with the consequences of your actions?

@Autumngoldleaf I also don’t blame them for not wanting to comply, but the simple thing is, if I have a child at school in a bubble with 99 other children, and choose to meet up with my brother who also has a child at school in a bubble with 99 other children he now has been “exposed” In theory to double the number of people, which would increase his likelihood of either catching it or something else with similar symptoms which would require him to self isolate whilst awaiting a test and the resultant lost earnings, before even considering a positive test or serious adverse health impacts.

Ps I don’t blame people for not complying. It’s unbelievably hard.

@TheFormattingIsWrong

So if a large proportion of people have this attitude, will they be prepared to have no health service, no social services, no police etc.

Sorry, where is your evidence for this hyperbolic nonsense?

Precisely. It's hyperbolic nonsense and hand wringing.

We've weighed up the risks and will continue to see close family and friends, either out if possible or at home if not.

Schools and universities have gone back plus pubs/restaurants were open.

Don’t discount the massive impact that those things have had.

Central government has not provided decent funding or guidance to schools.

It also has not got track and trace in place. Do you remember the first “first” case reported in the news? They had loads of details about where they’d been, who their contacts were and how it spread. Making it possible to track down and reduce the spread.

That has not happened properly since - and without that, numbers have inevitably ballooned.

People will spread it without knowing. So many people don’t have symptoms.

So no, I don’t think it’s about compliance.

Precisely. It's hyperbolic nonsense and hand wringing

What do you think would have happened if we hadn't locked down in March?

If a large amount of people don't follow the restrictions then health and other services will be overwhelmed. This is starting to happen where I live now. We have been told to stay away unless urgent.

And presumably that was in spite of local lockdown, yes? So how has it helped?

March lockdown was different. People were told it was for 3 months. Obviously those of us with any sense knew it wouldn't be, but the general public as a rule did not expect it to be. It's clear, as a long term strategy, lockdowns will not work.

They need to get test and trace sorted and why people aren't up in arms about this I really cannot fathom. If we had a proper system in place we could be back to a semblance of normality by now. This government is utterly shambolic.

But what about the people they come into contact with and the people those people come into contact with. Should they have to live with the consequences of your actions?

Again, please explain the difference between me unwittingly infecting a stranger with norovirus or chickenpox, and me unwittingly infecting a stranger with covid 19.

People's altruism towards others they don't know and have no emotional attachment to only goes so far. That's human nature.

lurker - most dc have siblings, my daughters between them have bubbles of hundred and hundreds. Each teacher - many teach across bubbles and bubbles and bubbles...each linking up hundreds and hundreds and if they have dc at other schools - again we are already soaring into the thousands so I wouldn't not see a loved close family member.

CAVEAT I don't have any left - all dead.

@Flaxmeadow the time should have been used to sort out a testing system and put proper measures in place for schools. I strongly believe the damage to the economy - which funds public services - is so extreme as to make further restrictions unethical.

The damage has been done to public trust. Compliance is going to be very low.

Agree. Enough is enough!