I'm calling it - people aren't complying.

[TheFormattingIsWrong]

Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

I’m on the fence to be fair.

My 18 year old is at college crammed in with hundreds of others three days a week. Two days a week he works at a massive tesco.

My 6 year old is at a massive four/five (some years) form intake primary school.

Our risk is huge, was most of the year as I was pregnant and having to go to the hospital twice a week, one where three midwives and a consultant died of covid in April/May.

Would we really be making that worse seeing PIL who just walk the dog and get shopping delivered? If they are willing to take the risk seeing the children (they are, they are healthy and mid 60s), then that’s something to think about.

My dad is allowed to come and visit What ever tier. He’s 85 and a single Person household so can bubble with us. He’s out everyday, doesn’t wear a mask as he thinks it BS, carrying on as usual seeing all his friends out and about in town, most of who are in and out of hospitals for appointments. So he’s a far greater risk to us than we are to him. But under the rules, having him with us is ok, but PIL coming in the house (we’d be 7), isn’t.

Plus, My dad is 85. If he lives another 5 years, fab. But he’s already outlived the average life expectancy so he’s not fussed.

Back in March, the government had a window of opportunity to invest in and sort out a proper testing and track and trace system. During this window, the majority of people across the country were behind lockdown and compliant. The government has since lost the public's trust and failed to make use of the time it bought to sort out testing, track and trace. This time around people simply won't be prepared to comply - I'm afraid there is now too much water under that bridge.

The other issue is that no one in gov has been able to offer an explanation as to how these restrictions (or a "circuit breaker") would actually help . . . Because we then have to exit the restrictions at some point, which will see a return of exactly the same problems.

We've had local restrictions in the NW for months now

And has it worked?

[quote roarfeckingroarr]@Flaxmeadow the time should have been used to sort out a testing system and put proper measures in place for schools. I strongly believe the damage to the economy - which funds public services - is so extreme as to make further restrictions unethical.

The damage has been done to public trust. Compliance is going to be very low.[/quote]
Well perhaps the govt can claw hack some money with the fines...

We're in London and we're complying, but only because my parents and sister are quite anxious so are sticking to the rules to the letter. We don't really have anyone else we'd mix with, we don't go out much as we have a toddler. But the Tier 2 rules don't affect our daily activities, we can still take DD to nursery and toddler classes, museums, use public transport etc, so no reason for us not to comply.

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I have to say OP, I agree with you.

I think the government are kidding themselves if they think people are going to abide by a strict lockdown again. They can pass all the laws/fines they like, I dont think people care anymore.

Like you say - there is no end in sight and that is becoming more and more apparent as time progresses. The magical unicorn vaccine may never appear. People wont put their lives on hold indefinitely to save people they dont know. As harsh/selfish as that is; its the reality of the situation.

Wait until someone in your house or family gets it then come back and say this, my flatmate has been extremely ill for two weeks, can’t eat, can’t sleep, struggling to breathe and in lots of pain. She is 28 and otherwise healthy. Likely she will be affected by this for a long time, I would not wish this on anyone, least of all my elderly relatives. Very very selfish.

@TheFormattingIsWrong

The thing is that yes, if I passed covid onto my father (or whoever) and he died, yes I would feel bad.

But I would also feel bad if I'd passed flu, norovirus or chickenpox (he hasn't had it) on to him and he'd died.

Someone please tell me what the difference is, on a personal level.

The difference is mainly that those diseases have symptoms so you'd know you had them and stay away. Covid is often symptomless so you don't know you have it.

Not sure what the death rates from norovirus and chicken pox are either, they're not something you often hear of people dying from. Unlike flu (against which you'd elderlies are probably vaccinated) and Covid.

As to point one, although I am a rule follower I don’t believe that it is primarily because someone had a coffee at their mum’s house that cases are rising. It’s because of schools and unis. And as the tiered restrictions do not do anything to these areas, it is unsurprising they’re not having much effect. The restrictions aren’t attacking where the problem really lies

@FractionalGains I agree with this 100%

To all those blaming the Govt, have they not noticed that other countries are in similar dire straits? Madrid? Paris? I'm no Boris fan, but I don't think he's doing much worse than other Western countries, most of whom seem to be struggling.

There's a middle ground between mindless "compliance" for the sake of it with a bunch of arbitrary and patently illogical rules set out by government and going gung ho for the full libertarian approach.

I'm not going to go three months without seeing my boyfriend or my closest friends again. On a risk/benefit basis it just isn't worth it for me. I will also see my 85 year old dad if he is comfortable with it and particularly if I can get a test. If schools close again I might lose the plot.

But I think to take it to the other extreme and go to nightclubs every night without a mask would just be daft.

No-one disputes that the government has made a complete pigs ear out of this and that the guidance is largely irrelevant. But that isn't a get-out-of-jail-free card to just whatever you like without any thought of the consequences.

Limited exposure with a small group of people, common sense, social distancing, space and hand-washing. That's the best we can do at the moment and observing this will allow us to preserve the sanity and function we need.

but you just know they’d be first in line, pushing and shoving, for hospital treatment should they get sick with covid.

I want nothing to do with the NHS. Over the last month, they have treated me like shit, so I'd happily not take anything from them.

@Flaxmeadow

Back in March people were scared of this new unknown illness but now it’s been around a while, it’s not as deadly as initially thought,

Actually it is, it hasn't changed.

The lockdown in March was to prevent services being overwhelmed for everyone, not just covid patients. That is the reason we locked down.

many people are asymptomatic despite testing positive

And? You do realise that the fact that many people are asymptomatic is why it is so dangerous? That they spread the virus without knowing they have it, or before they have any symptoms if they do get symptoms

What do you mean ‘actually it is’? The NHS wasn’t overwhelmed, there wasn’t the levels of mortality suggested therefore it’s not as deadly as we were initially led to believe. The fact that so many people contract the virus without becoming unwell shows this.

@roarfeckingroarr

I'm in London.

I don't know a single person who will comply with the no mixing of households rule.

Me : I live alone and planning to suck it up despite it being horrible on my mental health

What’s your excuse then?

My areas due to hit a local lockdown but family just outside of london are okay, so I will be going there to see them. I'm not going through an undefined period of time unable to see them until the government decide, I did last time but I won't any longer. My nan is in her 90's, she wants to keep seeing us, if she catches it and dies she knows she's had a good life and a long life. She wants to spend the time she has left seeing her family. That isn't selfish.

@TheFormattingIsWrong

Nope, I'm just anti social and would like to still see my mum and sisters. HtH

Yes, I'm not saying you're doing it because you respect lockdown ideology. I'm saying that you're doing a sort of lockdown by default, and saying it's lowering the risk of transmission. You think that you are a lower risk because you're antisocial. Does this not apply to everybody? Wouldn't it be a good idea to encourage everybody to be a bit more antisocial to avoid unnecessary transmission? Or do you enjoy the idea of unnecessary transmission, and if so, why?

What does HTH mean?

Thank you OP for being the reason that so many of us who are clinically vulnerable are still living in fear. You seem to want to condemn us to serious complications or death just so that you can carry on living as you want too. Selfish, just pure selfishness. But fuck it, you're alright

‘I won’t be complying’ is a very bold statement to make when it seems that actually, to a large extent, you WILL be. I think a lot of people will bend the odd rule to see a family member etc, and it’s obvious that some situations are riskier than others. I’m not sure how necessary a defined stance is unless you’re planning to defy every single rule.

@ChaChaCha2012

This isn't about personal altruism towards individual strangers. It's about working together as a collective society, making collective sacrifices, for our collective good.

The overwhelming majority voted for a government that told them the collective good was a very bad thing. There's no interest in helping others.

It honestly feels like that at times. We are very individualistic as a society. I wonder if East Asians get as angry about masks as Brits do.

I have complied. From Day 1. I'm just getting to the point where I'm just giving up on life and waiting for the day when I get COVID. And I promise I'm not going to be bashing down doors if I do.

Whilst I don’t understand all the rules I will stick to them. Not just to protect people’s live but also their livelihoods. The longer people ignore the rules in Tier 2 and 3 areas the longer it will be that businesses remain closed.

@Racoonworld

Totally agree. We won’t be complying either. The sooner the government realise that lockdown isn’t working the better.

I agree with not complying. I would like to see a full-strength lockdown which forces everyone to comply and which has the police and local authorities issues on-the-spot fines for Coviots who break the rules.

Local restrictions in my region and It hasn't worked. Cases are climbing but slowly. People are more sneaky about it. Going through gardens and entering houses that way. Meeting in parks for picnics on nice weather days and sitting together, kids being dropped off at their friends houses instead of everyone being together.

I have loosely followed restrictions, I see my parents and my husbands parents and my sons friends come to the house and him theirs. I give the place a thorough clean before and after they leave.

I don't understand how I can go swimming, visit zoos, parks, restaurants but can't have a meal in my house with my parents and in laws.

@SamsMumsCateracts I’m sorry you’re having to cope with this. It’s such a sad situation. I have been so enlightened this year with the attitudes of people in the U.K. so called Blitz spirit, if that was now people would be refusing to put up blackout curtains because they like to watch the sunrise without getting out of bed!

A big reason @SamsMumsCateracts you're living in fear is because schools are open and Government hasn't got track and trace working even half way efficiently.

We're living in fear a bit too - well we were. We've been told we're not supposed to be scared or vulnerable anymore, so I've gone the other way now tbh.