I'm calling it - people aren't complying.

[TheFormattingIsWrong]

Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

But your chances of passing it on are not nil.

If my chances of catching it are low, how are my chances of passing it on any higher

People on this thread are uniquely aggravating. Claiming that they’re comfortable with the consequences of their decisions, but you just know they’d be first in line, pushing and shoving, for hospital treatment should they get sick with covid. And then they’d have the temerity to complain about operations being cancelled and the NHS becoming the ‘covid service’.

I wish we'd just introduce the circuit breaker and be done with it. Right now, Manchester is almost certainly going into Tier 3, which means my gym will close.

People are going to protest the more the government clamp down, and it doesn't help when you get things like the Palladium being open and having a massive crowd for the Arsene Wenger event while small local businesses are terrified about going bust because they can't host events. It's a vicious circle. Like, Liverpool's gone into Tier 3 and there's going to be yet another conspiracy theorist protest with Piers Corbyn and others.

I honestly don't care anymore if I get COVID or not. I'm expendable.

[quote roarfeckingroarr]@Flaxmeadow the time should have been used to sort out a testing system and put proper measures in place for schools. I strongly believe the damage to the economy - which funds public services - is so extreme as to make further restrictions unethical.

The damage has been done to public trust. Compliance is going to be very low.[/quote]
I agree.

A proper Test and Trace system is the ONLY way through this.
Lockdowns DO work, but only temporarily to avert NHS overwhelm.
This Govt does them too late to be effective, other NHS work suffers.
The Economy becomes more and more screwed.
Plus there will be less and less compliance, as folk get weary and watch politicians of all colours break their own rules.

Test and Trace and proper measures for Schools and Unis essential.

I've complied.to the letter until now, but no longer. Am in Essex and furious. Huge areas of the country have worse figure than us and are still in Tier 1, our numbers are well below the national average, and the threshold for Tier 2, so why on Earth have they placed us there? They have made a huge mistake with that, compliance will be very low now.

The bubbles need to be extended to allow for family groups, not just single people. If they were extended and larger, they'd have much more compliance.

@TheFormattingIsWrong the thing with Covid is that a lot of younger healthy people can get it without symptoms or without recognising that those symptoms are Covid thinking that it is a cold or something else. If that person then meets a friend indoors for a coffee, they could transfer the virus to them, who could transfer it to their school bubble and no one knows where the Covid came from until the ECV teacher gets serious symptoms. The teacher did not have a choice and expected everyone to comply with the rules to keep everyone safe.

You may have already had Covid like this and not know it.

I’m with you OP. Absolutely sick to death of being told what to do with those flip floppers in Westminster with their half arsed, half baked plan. Anything they come up with is contradictory and a total joke. It’s apparently safe for us to see strangers at work and various other places yet I can’t see my own family. We are just delaying the inevitable, Covid isn’t going away and herd immunity is the only way forward.

you just know they’d be first in line, pushing and shoving, for hospital treatment should they get sick with covid

I'd happily sign a disclaimer to waiver that actually. Show me where I sign up.

Yes, if bubbles could include everyone I know
And everyone I know has their own bubble of everyone they know.....

Something bugging me about that

I’m in Tier 2. I stick to the restrictions and so do most people I know. I judge the people who don’t pretty heavily and it will affect whether I see much of them in the future. There’s no point slagging off the (incompetent and awful) government if you’re going to contribute to them problem yourself.

Frankly my personal likelihood of catching covid given I don't go to shops, don't have a child in school and work from home and only see others in the same boat is pretty much nil

You're arguing the case that some kind of lockdown is the way forward, here, by observing a personal mini-lockdown of your own.

If you believe that there is less chance of you spreading the virus using the means you listed above, wouldn't it be good if as many people as possible could do this, to reduce the risk of transmission further?

People like you OP won't accept the consequences because you obviously have no conscience in the first place.

It would still be possible to have a closed bubble.

I honestly don't care anymore if I get COVID or not. I'm expendable.

But OP it's not norovirus or chickenpox is it? On an individual level, you passing on covid is statistically more likely to hospitalise or kill them. However on a population level, it would contribute to potentially overwhelming the NHS and further decimating the economy.

This isn't about personal altruism towards individual strangers. It's about working together as a collective society, making collective sacrifices, for our collective good.

You're arguing the case that some kind of lockdown is the way forward, here, by observing a personal mini-lockdown of your own.

Nope, I'm just anti social and would like to still see my mum and sisters. HtH.

I'm in North Northumberland.
Cases low. Friends and kids Dad in Scottish Borders: Cases low.
Both areas on higher restrictions for weeks now - cases rising.
But, we are still complying with the regs. to the letter
Kids just missed 2 weeks school as Dad couldn't access a test within 7 days: completely rubbish !!!
TEST and TRACE until a miracle vaccine (ever) arrives

The government still have their bar in the House of Commons, I bet they won't be exempt from meeting in there.

Dd is 15. Talking about this in the car today she said (casually) "Well my friends and I won't be doing that". When pressed she said that they are in school all day together. Half term is coming up, the weather will be rubbish and they won't not see each other at people's houses.

I foresee a massive struggle trying to get her to comply when frankly the rules are more flexible than previously and even then we appeared to be the only parents enforcing it. Frankly if all her friends are meeting then this time I won't be forcing her to stay home and comply- previously she ended up pretty excluded as everyone was out and about and it took a while for her friendships and mental health to recover.

@Flaxmeadow

And presumably that was in spite of local lockdown, yes? So how has it helped?

No it is because people are not following the rules. People like you

March lockdown was different. People were told it was for 3 months.

No they did not say it would be for 3 months. Why do people keep saying this?

They told us there would be rolling lockdowns, that they could last at least 18 months, and they have told us this over and over again

Obviously those of us with any sense knew it wouldn't be, but the general public as a rule did not expect it to be. It's clear, as a long term strategy, lockdowns will not work.

Lockdown did work, obviously

They need to get test and trace sorted and why people aren't up in arms about this I really cannot fathom.

Not enough people are getting involved with T&T. Just like too many people are not following the rules

If we had a proper system in place we could be back to a semblance of normality by now. This government is utterly shambolic.

The Gov't have put things in places, but people are not complying and now you say you won't either
But it's all the Gov't fault? Really?

As to point one, although I am a rule follower I don’t believe that it is primarily because someone had a coffee at their mum’s house that cases are rising. It’s because of schools and unis. And as the tiered restrictions do not do anything to these areas, it is unsurprising they’re not having much effect. The restrictions aren’t attacking where the problem really lies.

As for the messaging in March, I’ve seen you say this on another thread and challenged it. I watched the briefings every damn day. I was not left with the impression that if we complied we would still be being told 18 months later we couldn’t see our family. I recall the repeated suggestion from the briefings being we lock down, get cases low enough and then control them with track and trace.

Whether lockdown “works” depends on how you define “work”. If your only criterion is bringing virus levels down for a temporary period then yes, it works. As a long term strategy it does not work as it is not sustainable.

Are you suggesting the government isn’t o blame for this? Firstly if people aren’t complying the government needs to look at why - they lost the moral authority to tell us to comply when it became clear their mates don’t have to. Secondly, the track and trace is a shambles. Who is to blame for that if not the government?

The likelihood seems no different to me. I've had norovirus every winter. Haven't had covid yet

Frankly my personal likelihood of catching covid given I don't go to shops, don't have a child in school and work from home and only see others in the same boat is pretty much nil

It isn't about YOU!!!

It's about ALL OF US, for Gods sake

You've been in tier 2 for a day, give it a chance!! We've had local restrictions in the NW for months now.

This isn't about personal altruism towards individual strangers. It's about working together as a collective society, making collective sacrifices, for our collective good.

The overwhelming majority voted for a government that told them the collective good was a very bad thing. There's no interest in helping others.

'These rules are literally insane. Manchester's infection rate is slowing. There. Is. No. Need.The NHS need to actually be serving sick people, not telling us they can't treat people when they are sick.'

It isn't 'literally insane'. It is a highly contagious infection and limiting social interaction reduces transmission. The nhs does 'serve' people but it has a limited capacity. People need to take some responsibility and socially distance.

Look at France. They are doing exactly the same, as is the rest of Europe.