I'm calling it - people aren't complying.

[TheFormattingIsWrong]

Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

If people want schools to stay open they should be complaining loudly that schools have been given no money for risk reduction.

Otherwise it's going to be an endless round of having to have kids home for 2 weeks at the drop of a hat isolating. It's going to get worse - more schools closing for lack of staff, more kids isolating - as infection rises.

Whereas schools in other countries with masks and social distancing will likely stay open consistently throughout.

As for complying, if you open schools pretty much as normal with no additional risk mitigation at all that sends the very clear message to children and the families that everything is 'back to normal'.

This message is being heard more loudly than the confusing 'tiers'. We see it every day at the school gates.

@IloveJKRowling

As for complying, if you open schools pretty much as normal with no additional risk mitigation at all that sends the very clear message to children and the families that everything is 'back to normal'.

This message is being heard more loudly than the confusing 'tiers'. We see it every day at the school gates.

I agree. People are seeing life continuing as normal at school and then you come home and switch on the news and they want us all to isolate more or less. It's conflicting signals. So you've kids/teens bouncing along with their friends all day unimpeded, then they're expected to become socially distanced drones outside of school. It's strange.

@Lau52

The worse thing about Covid is how much it has shown how divided country really is and with all mixed Attitudes we will very lucky to get this virus under control. With Me, me, me brigade, you really do realise how limited we really are on people putting other before themselves. Anyone that wins an award for bravery really, really are unique. Until people loose someone or are personally affected themselves, parents, child, siblings, grandparents then it really will continue to be about them. Stamping there selfish little feet, this isn't fair, I not listening! We all live on same hamster wheel of life, were all in the system. Why can't we all just work together. People won't comply with track and trace, people refusing download or giving false details. Your details are everyone anyway. Really if your on social media, more is known about us than we realise.

I think many people should be winning awards for bravery. That includes teachers (who did not sign up to put their health on the line in a pandemic), NHS workers (nurses and doctors but also everyone else, all the other HCPs and all the people who support the organisation) and all the shopworkers, delivery people including posties and council workers who have kept refuse etc going.

I see a lot of people taking all this very seriously. I get annoyed when the government blames ordinary people for the consequences of its poor decision-making.

I think you over estimate the number of people who are actually afraid to get the virus. It’s a mild in convenience unless you are shielding or have vulnerable people in your household!

When I see people saying that schools being open and all that contact, means they don’t have to bother with Their own isolation, I really worry for teachers health. It just shows that the majority of people do not know how much the teaching day has been changed fundamentally by Covid rules. Teachers must stay 2m away from students. Desks must be 1 metre apart. No assemblies, no school community events, no trips, all school equipment must be quarantined for 72hours after use (dt, science heavily impacted). This sucks a lot of the fun out of the school day and is quite exhausting and admittedly impossible to apply constantly. BUt we try because it’s the best thing in the long run for the children.

If everyone else stops trying then as teachers we will have a ridiculously high chance of getting Covid, rather than just a slightly higher one. As will all other Public facing workers who cannot work Safely from home. Please think of others..even though it’s bloody hard.

I think you over estimate the number of people who are actually afraid to get the virus. It’s a mild in convenience unless you are shielding or have vulnerable people in your household!

I know a very fit and healthy 22 year old who had it. It was far more than a mild inconvenience.

So, @BillywilliamV - so do you think the CDC, WHO have got in Wrong and the governments of the world give into a fit of mass idiocy and hysteria and a suicidal wish to track their economies for mere inconvenient sniffles? Do you? Not a rhetorical question, genuinely interested

@Quarks69

When I see people saying that schools being open and all that contact, means they don’t have to bother with Their own isolation, I really worry for teachers health. It just shows that the majority of people do not know how much the teaching day has been changed fundamentally by Covid rules. Teachers must stay 2m away from students. Desks must be 1 metre apart. No assemblies, no school community events, no trips, all school equipment must be quarantined for 72hours after use (dt, science heavily impacted). This sucks a lot of the fun out of the school day and is quite exhausting and admittedly impossible to apply constantly. BUt we try because it’s the best thing in the long run for the children.

If everyone else stops trying then as teachers we will have a ridiculously high chance of getting Covid, rather than just a slightly higher one. As will all other Public facing workers who cannot work Safely from home. Please think of others..even though it’s bloody hard.

Actually I have had a thought. To all those who don’t want to isolate, I do sympathise, so if you do that, would you be okay with teachers stop doing all of the above at school?(Plus bubbles, masks etc etc)...say yes!!

Teachers must stay 2m away from students. Desks must be 1 metre apart. No assemblies, no school community events, no trips, all school equipment must be quarantined for 72hours after use (dt, science heavily impacted).

There is none of this in my kids schools, there isn't room. The gov't has said 'where possible' and given no money to make it possible.

With extra money, there was in June/July where the older one went back with SD desks, and because of that message, the teachers and students SD more both in and out of school.

Now teachers say 'SD where possible' but it isn't possible (my DD is sitting with shoulders touching to the kids next to her - the only difference to Feb is that they're sitting facing forwards and not facing each other).

In June/July there were no sleepovers. Now, DD is complaining because I'm the only parent in the friendship group not doing it. The response when questioned is 'well, they're all in a small crowded classroom together for 6 hours a day, what's the difference?'. I don't have an answer to that to be honest.

Teachers must stay 2m away from students. Desks must be 1 metre apart. No assemblies, no school community events, no trips, all school equipment must be quarantined for 72hours after use (dt, science heavily impacted).

Oh and I've seen some of the classrooms recently at other schools in the area - and they're the same. Kids sitting shoulder to shoulder.

I think you're lucky if your school can do this. And I bet it has a knock on effect of the behaviour of parents and children out of school too.

@TheFormattingIsWrong

And BTW I always wear a mask and keep the 2m distance from anyone I don't know. Rarely go into shops. I WFH.

It’s interesting how people seem to believe in their own moral high-ground, whatever their attitude to the guidelines are. So OP, it seems from this that you would be critical of those who ignore the guidelines on masks, and in another post you state that you wouldn’t go to big parties. You imply that people who ignore those guidelines are worthy of criticism, whereas ignoring the guidelines you choose to ignore is just common sense and doesn’t actually cause any wider harm.

Teachers must stay 2m away from students. Desks must be 1 metre apart. No assemblies, no school community events, no trips, all school equipment must be quarantined for 72hours after use (dt, science heavily impacted)

Nothing of the sort at dds school.

And as for year 13 Ds college - Christ they are like sardines still.

(There are no assemblies of trips but that all. Everything else seems the same).

@WankPuffins

Teachers must stay 2m away from students. Desks must be 1 metre apart. No assemblies, no school community events, no trips, all school equipment must be quarantined for 72hours after use (dt, science heavily impacted)

Nothing of the sort at dds school.

And as for year 13 Ds college - Christ they are like sardines still.

That’s interesting..I just naively thought all schools are doing the same. Question is then..does it make any difference? We are super strict and manageD to last 6out of 7 weeks without a single diagnosed case. Maybe it did work then. Is someone comparing different schools.??

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Today 11:34 BillywilliamV

I think you over estimate the number of people who are actually afraid to get the virus. It’s a mild in convenience unless you are shielding or have vulnerable people in your household!

You are right that there is a difference between people and the level of fear for themselves in terms of the virus. I do think some people are risk assessing based on their own personal risk of catching it and the consequences. But at this stage it’s not about personal risk. It’s about national risk. The risk nationally is that health care is overwhelmed and we are then ALL at greater risk if something goes wrong, which it can for anyone at any time. Those that are needlessly going against the rules, however, are actually also putting their own health and safety at risk too and increasing the possibility of tighter and more closely policed controls. It’s self defeating behaviour in a way.

Maybe it did work then. Is someone comparing different schools.??

They should be doing so but seemingly not - almost like they're scared of the answers.

By the way we're still being very careful and partially at least it's for the teachers - I appreciate all they do and how much they care. If only the government were the same.

For us, DD's bubble hasn't closed but others have - but lots of kids in her class have been off sick for various periods.

During 4 weeks of school in the summer in a smaller class, socially distanced, there were zero sickness absences. This term, after a week at school, 7 kids were off sick.

So in terms of general virus spread, social distancing and smaller class size made a very clear difference in terms of sickness absence.

@Quarks69 I wouldn’t have a clue about cases in Dd school. We haven’t heard anything but we moved to a new area in lockdown so she only started there in September, I’ve not spoken to any other parents so I wouldn’t hear of any cases unless Dd was affected by one I guess.

The risk nationally is that health care is overwhelmed and we are then ALL at greater risk if something goes wrong, which it can for anyone at any time.

This. Dr Van-Tam has said as much several times.

@TheFormattingIsWrong
I understand your decision that you will ignore the restrictions, let the virus rip through the country and dam the consequences. But the rest of your argument is nonsense.

if there is a risk of my sister committing suicide, nothing will keep me from her
But if their is a risk of your sister dying of Covid, then you wont do anything? 😒

If we had a decent (Track and trace) system in place none of this would be a problem

The UK is doing more testing that any other European country, it physically cant be increased any faster.
People with a positive test could be detained and physically quarantined, maybe bring in the army, but people would just not bother going for a test. 😴
Only something like 10% of people traced are self isolating. People aren't following the T&T restrictions either.
Testing does not pick up asystematic spreaders.
So stop ranting that T&T is some sort of magical solution, it isn't.

they need to get those speedy saliva tests sorted. Then you could all test before a family gathering and it would only go ahead if everyone's test was negative
It isn't a magical solution, it wont pick up asymptomatic spreaders and their are all sorts of reasons why this cant be rolled out until 2021 if ever.

But if their is a risk of your sister dying of Covid, then you wont do anything?

Presumably the risk of suicide is higher assuming the sister is healthy and not older than 70

Unless you think only the risk of dying of covid is important

@WankPuffins

Teachers must stay 2m away from students. Desks must be 1 metre apart. No assemblies, no school community events, no trips, all school equipment must be quarantined for 72hours after use (dt, science heavily impacted)

Nothing of the sort at dds school.

And as for year 13 Ds college - Christ they are like sardines still.

Same. The younger ones school is doing better with distancing, but they have more space to allow for this (luckily, they had a few extra rooms as their building used to be used for surestart weighing clinics and such too which is not there now, and have now utilised them, but many schools arent this lucky)

DSDs school though, they were like sardines to start with, theres no more funding, no more space, so obviously they are still like sardines now. They enforce masks in corridors, but thats about it. They actively disallow students who wish to wear masks from wearing them as apparently government guidance says this. They say they would love to follow all the guidance, but without a money tree and a space fairy, they simply can't.

disallow students who wish to wear masks in lessons*

if there is a risk of my sister committing suicide, nothing will keep me from her
But if their is a risk of your sister dying of Covid, then you wont do anything?

While I largely agree with most of the rest, this part is a bit daft. Suicide risk is now. Covid risk is possible (and quite a small risk still, even if she did catch it)

I had a similar situation with MIL actually. And she would be in the age range of those higher risk, and has multiple illnesses ontop of this. However, she was hugely declining in isolation. Was actively hurting herself. She has always had issues with anxiety and depression, was being treated before covid which has never resumed since March. We allowed her to see us before 'support bubbles' became a thing, as the risk to her now, and more likely was hurting herself/suicide. Covid was a possible risk to her of course. But thats not really considered when in an..active emergency as it were. We 'broke he rules' and actually thought we were still breaking them as everyone told us support bubbles ended when our area went into extra restrictions, but we still allowed it (have since found out support bubbles are allowed still, but when we thought they weren't..we still did it)

She has since actually been infected with covid, which was concerning but luckily she got it extremely mildly and was 'fine' besides a lingering cough. In the past chest infections, colds and flu have hospitalised her and she has needed oxygen, so it was VERY lucky really that it did not affect her as we thought it would.

Even if she had been very ill when she caught covid though, it would still have been worth the 'risk' to stop her hurting herself more at the time. Yes, she may infect someone else who is less lucky, but when faced with such a situation, yes, you tend to take the 'selfish' route of helping your family member tbh.

The worse thing about Covid is how much it has shown how divided country really is and with all mixed Attitudes we will very lucky to get this virus under control.

Well shown some of us how divided etc etc. Some of us knew a long time ago.

What's more I confidently predict the knowledge of that division will disappear like a fart through silk when it's convenient (again). Which is what people really mean when they talk about "normal". They want to go back to being able to not having to hear about other people so much.