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Essex

215 replies

dollychopss · 13/10/2020 11:59

Probably going to Tier2

OP posts:
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Hardbackwriter · 15/10/2020 09:26

I actually think there's a strong case for a national move to tier 2 type measures, given the situation. But it should either be: national (if the evidence suggests that this would be best due to movement of people between areas or that it would lead to higher compliance - which I think is likely to be the case) or locally targeted, based on the data. It shouldn't be based on Essex councillors deciding for themselves that they don't like national policy so want to bring in their own version that sits outside the current government approach, and I think it would be quite stupid for the government to open the door to that.

There's also the issue of compliance - they're having trouble getting people to stick to tier 2 rules in areas where most people accept they're clearly needed. People aren't going to abide by rules that they see as arbitrary power plays by the council, and we know that 'lockdown fatigue' is a real thing. Arguably a big mistake in areas of the north was making them lock down 'early', based on London's trajectory and not their own, so that there's now a feeling they've been in measures 'too long' and people are frustrated. You can waste public goodwill and will to comply, and you shouldn't.

Polkadotties · 15/10/2020 09:56

London is tier 2 from Saturday. I’m sure Essex will follow

Todaythiscouldbe · 15/10/2020 10:11

@Polkadotties

57 people with Covid doesn’t mean 57 went in with Covid. You can be in for something completely unrelated, pick up Covid in hospital and then be classed as a covid stat
Exactly. This is what is happening. Community transmission is extremely low.
Todaythiscouldbe · 15/10/2020 10:15

I live in an area likely to be tier 2, work in an area that will remain tier 1, less than 10 miles apart and the area remaining in tier 1 has a higher rate. Madness!

Hardbackwriter · 15/10/2020 10:21

But London will be put in on the basis of the data. It's hard to look at this map, for instance, and say that there's an obvious case for choosing Essex, or that if it goes in there aren't huge swathes of the country that shouldn't be put into the same measures at the same time - and that's the door I think (but may be wrong!) the government will want to avoid opening.

I also think that the problem now is that even if there is an objective, clear-cut case for Essex entering tier 2 based on the data the narrative that 'the council asked for it for the money' will stick, and, again, that's just squandering public good will.

Essex
Polkadotties · 15/10/2020 10:28

Apparently a high number of the positive cases in London are 16-21 year olds who are at uni in northern areas of the country but are still registered at their parents homes

ClaudiaWankleman · 15/10/2020 10:33

Apparently a high number of the positive cases in London are 16-21 year olds who are at uni in northern areas of the country but are still registered at their parents homes

Source please Polka?

Hardbackwriter · 15/10/2020 11:04

That wouldn't just be an issue for London, though - it would be the case for anywhere with higher than average rates of participation in higher education

ClaudiaWankleman · 15/10/2020 11:08

Thanks @Polkadotties that's a serious flaw in the system.

However, presumably the same flaw could be skewing figures elsewhere in the country. London has a high density of large universities, and (anecdotally) I don't think many temporary London residents bother with a GP, they just use the walk in services. Therefore there must be some cases being diagnosed amongst London residents which are channelled to areas outside of London?

Greysparkles · 15/10/2020 11:13

Friends working in hospitals in Essex are saying the picture is not pretty and covid wards are becoming full, ITU becoming full...

I'm sorry but this is just complete bullshit.

In my trust (3 hospitals) there is currently 1 covid case in ITU.

It may well be "becoming full" but it's not full of covid

Polkadotties · 15/10/2020 11:17

I'm sorry but this is just complete bullshit

I agree, see the figures on my post on previous page

OpheliasCrayon · 15/10/2020 11:20

What would tier 2 mean?

I'm thinking about booking things for half term but I don't see much point now? Can we swim etc?

dollychopss · 15/10/2020 11:22

@Greysparkles

Friends working in hospitals in Essex are saying the picture is not pretty and covid wards are becoming full, ITU becoming full...

I'm sorry but this is just complete bullshit.

In my trust (3 hospitals) there is currently 1 covid case in ITU.

It may well be "becoming full" but it's not full of covid

Can you keep us updated as everything is scaremongering
OP posts:
Splodgetastic · 15/10/2020 11:30

The guidance on what is allowed under each tier is a bit shit.

Hardbackwriter · 15/10/2020 11:50

Well, I was wrong, the government apparently does want to open the door to random activist councils!

Polkadotties · 15/10/2020 11:51

It’s official. Tier 2. Fuck the lot of them!

Shinyletsbebadguys · 15/10/2020 11:58

I hear it from another angle I have a particular reason for being aware of the covid cases in the local care homes and I'm in Essex (but one of the unitary authorities ) the hospitals are still taking care home patients which stopped for all but absolute desperate cases in March. It is a decent litmus test , the local homes that I know are saying they aren't seeing massive increases , their contact with the hospitals (which is daily are saying that whilst they expect an increase it's not all doom and gloom and at capacity ....far from it currently)

My DP teaches in hospitals across the country and he is not hearing desperate panic (although obviously he is not in the top tier areas ), he teaches something specific that needs to be updated legally but even he was cancelled during the summer , the fact that he is being booked gives me a lot of hope. Trust me , however important it was he wouldn't be booked if things were as dire as some people suggest.

I'm not saying things aren't bad and I will always and believe strongly in complying with rules and taking this seriously but its not countrywide and there is currently no indication that the ITU beds here or in other parts of the country are at capacity yet.

Dp teaches quite a few clinical leads , or rather has done recently , and they are certainly expecting the proverbial to hit the fan , but they seem to feel they will make it through although are expecting it to be tough (small sample of course and only anecdotal) , interestingly the type of teaching DP does has shown they are upskilling unusual staff to be as prepared as possible. Its rather impressed me in some places.

Sorry that was stupidly rambling, I guess I'm hoping it may allay some fears , maybe sort of , we have almost accidental access to hospitals and care homes as a sort of a litmus test and it's not translating as on their knees as some of the scare mongering suggests.

Of course fully aware we could be wrong.

BunsyGirl · 15/10/2020 12:02

Absolutely bloody ridiculous. My DCs can no longer visit their grandparents who live in a Tier 1 area (that has DOUBLE the rate of infection to where we live in Essex). My dad cannot visit his other grandchildren who live in a different Tier 1 area (again with DOUBLE the rate of infections to Essex). If they expect people to comply with rules, they need to make ones that actually make sense.

Todaythiscouldbe · 15/10/2020 12:12

@BunsyGirl

Absolutely bloody ridiculous. My DCs can no longer visit their grandparents who live in a Tier 1 area (that has DOUBLE the rate of infection to where we live in Essex). My dad cannot visit his other grandchildren who live in a different Tier 1 area (again with DOUBLE the rate of infections to Essex). If they expect people to comply with rules, they need to make ones that actually make sense.
I can't see this guidance anywhere, do you have a link to it please? I plan to see my parents (tier 1), nothing will change that
Pertella · 15/10/2020 12:14

No indoor mixing of households in tier 2. This still applies if you live in a tier 2 area and visit a tier 1 area.

Pertella · 15/10/2020 12:14

But you can meet them in a pub 😉

Greysparkles · 15/10/2020 12:18

Can you still meet in pubs/restaurants though? It's not very clear

The80sweregreat · 15/10/2020 12:20

No, no mixing at all from different households , even for the pub. Which is how I've read this. (Good job I got out for lunch with friends last week.)

Hardbackwriter · 15/10/2020 12:21

@Pertella

But you can meet them in a pub 😉
Not under the tier 2 rules you can't:

Venues following COVID-secure guidance can host more people in total, but no one must mix indoors with anyone who they do not live with (or have formed a support bubble with) unless exemptions apply. Outdoors, you can meet in groups of up to 6 people.

This includes in:

pubs and restaurants

shops

leisure and entertainment venues

places of worship

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