London Tier 2 Lockdown?

[Humptytheboiledegg]

daily fail link

This sounds pretty definite (yet another leak) - so no mixing of households inside at all from today in London?

[quote roarfeckingroarr]@SheepandCow do you work for Sadiq? You certainly have a v high opinion of him, one I definitely do not share.[/quote]
I don't, but perhaps he should offer me a job. As his PR? I'll send him this as a recommendation.

[quote RedMarauder]@SleepingStandingUp it is either:
a. single person or
b. a single parent with children under 18
who can join one other household.

www.gov.uk/guidance/making-a-support-bubble-with-another-household[/quote]
Sorry yes by heading a household I meant single adults too

@woodlandwalker

I think it is ridiculous that large parts of London have lower than national average rates of Covid but are moving into stricter lockdown, whilst other areas with higher rates of infection are not having increased restrictions. It should just be nationwide to both be fair and try to bring down the infection numbers.

I agree it should be nationwide. It is indeed ridiculous waiting until after the horse has bolted. We need proactive preventative measures. We don't need confusing divisive regional 'tiers'. People live, work, and go to school across boundaries. Viruses travel across regions.

We need a coherent national approach.

However, why does London need urgent action? (tier 3, at least). London's figures are rapidly increasing. And, as a very high density city of 9 million inhabitants, London will be far more vulnerable than a more sparsely populated area. London is a virus's wet dream. Lots of people in close proximity to each other = fast and easy spread.

That said. It's all pretty pointless whilst our borders remain unrestricted with no proper quarantine.

@pontypridd

It's a huge difference.

Please can you explain how @KatherineJaneway
I don't doubt that this might be true. But seeing the bare bones of the restrictions in Tier 2 and looking at my life as it is now, I can see no difference at all.

All the meals out with friends I had planned cannot now go ahead. Already other events that had been planned have been cancelled or moved to 2021 so none of those to look forwards to in winter. Family are in a different part of the country and they are stopping any travel in from London from Saturday so no option there. So basically I will have no face to face interaction with family or friends for the foreseeable future. No hugs or kisses. Just trips to the gym (I am grateful for these) and Tesco. It's cold, dark early and raining a lot. I'm here on my own so yes, a huge difference. At least in tier 3 I had a chance to see friends and visit family.

So you can meet in a beer garden as long as it’s outside is this the same for restaurants?

If I've understood the tier 2 restrictions correctly, if me and a colleague go across the road to a coffee shop and sit in, then we'll be breaching the tier 2 restrictions?

I think not if you were still working in the coffee shop?

@Dollywilde. I really feel for you, and anyone with small babies at the moment.

Taking babies outside in the cold is absolutely fine as long as they are wrapped up (we used to ‘Scandi-nap’ - in the middle of winter bundle the baby up warm and take a walk round the block until he was sleeping, then leave the buggy in the back garden - those were his most successful naps!

Another idea is to buy a baby wearing coat (or another suitable over-sized coat) - baby in baby carrier/sling, wrap coat over both of you and out you go. A great way for you both to stay warm. DC1 was a velcro baby I used to carry him round all day in a wrap sling and when we wanted to leave the house all I had to do was put on the baby wearing coat and go - which was great on those days when getting yourself together to get outdoors felt like a big hurdle.

@Lumene

If I've understood the tier 2 restrictions correctly, if me and a colleague go across the road to a coffee shop and sit in, then we'll be breaching the tier 2 restrictions?

I think not if you were still working in the coffee shop?

Who knows? 🤷🏻‍♀️

they are stopping any travel in from London from Saturday

Thats surely not right? How would that work..unless they make those who commute exempt from the rule? Not sure how they could in practice keep everyone in London and keep everyone else out? Without a giant bubble cage placed over it, or police on every road in/out?!

Haha, they are definitely not stopping travel in and out of London, or of any of the Tier 2 or 3 areas.

They're definitely not stopping travel in or out of London. Unless, I've missed a very recent announcement about airport closures?

This has become farcical. The virus quite clearly can't be controlled, especially not with these convoluted measures and a frankly dysfunctional track-and-trace system.

The cure has now well-and-truly become worse than the disease itself and there's no end in sight :(

I feel for the people who will lose their jobs as a result of government actions, and for the children/students who's education will suffer.

It's not a case of choosing between 'the cure' or doing nothing.

Covid will continue to spread and wreak havoc whether or not we do anything.

What do you think happens if we throw our hands up and do nothing? You're in for a rude shock if you think everything will go back to normal and only The Others will be affected.

An uncontained virus impacts across society.

No hospital treatment for anyone - broken leg, cancer, mental illness, or Covid. Beds full and staff ill.

Schools closing on and off because staff off sick.

Economic devastation. As warned by the IMF it's impossible to have a healthy economy without containment.

If the cure isn't working we can't just ignore it. The only viable option is to opt for an effective cure.

By now all of London is in tier 2.

@SheepandCow

It's not a case of choosing between 'the cure' or doing nothing.

Covid will continue to spread and wreak havoc whether or not we do anything.

What do you think happens if we throw our hands up and do nothing? You're in for a rude shock if you think everything will go back to normal and only The Others will be affected.

An uncontained virus impacts across society.

No hospital treatment for anyone - broken leg, cancer, mental illness, or Covid. Beds full and staff ill.

Schools closing on and off because staff off sick.

Economic devastation. As warned by the IMF it's impossible to have a healthy economy without containment.

If the cure isn't working we can't just ignore it. The only viable option is to opt for an effective cure.

Sweden

Sweden what?
You're referring to their very high death rate? Which is despite social distancing being very easy there what with 50% of Swedes living alone. And them having a very good well funded (through higher taxes) healthcare system.

@SheepandCow

Sweden what? You're referring to their very high death rate? Which is despite social distancing being very easy there what with 50% of Swedes living alone. And them having a very good well funded (through higher taxes) healthcare system.

You know what.

They didn't lock down and on 15th October had ZERO covid deaths. The evidence is staring you in the face, but continue to advocate for lockdowns if you wish.

No idea where you sourced that apparent statistic from.

They certainly had deaths today, 16 October.

All the data clearly demonstrates Sweden's very high death rate. Check out the data thread. The hard facts are there.

In any event it's kind of irrelevant. Be sure we're not like Sweden. A whopping 50% of Swedes live alone. They also have a very good well funded healthcare system.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4050379-Daily-numbers-graphs-analysis-thread-25?pg=33

@SheepandCow

No idea where you sourced that apparent statistic from.

They certainly had deaths today, 16 October.

All the data clearly demonstrates Sweden's very high death rate. Check out the data thread. The hard facts are there.

In any event it's kind of irrelevant. Be sure we're not like Sweden. A whopping 50% of Swedes live alone. They also have a very good well funded healthcare system.

I said zero deaths on 15th October. Google it.

Sweden has a lower death rate than the UK. If lockdowns worked then Sweden would surely have the highest death rate globally by far, as they're the only country that did not lock down. But instead there's no correlation between lockdown severity and reduced COVID deaths.

They don't even wear masks over there.

Look at these graphs. They're the same shape. One country locked down and the other didn't. If lockdowns have an impact then why do the two graphs look so similar?

You also seem to be completely ignoring the CATASTROPHIC effects of lockdown both economically and medically. I presume you still have your job? If so, you're lucky - millions of others in the UK aren't.