Rule breakers- do you not worry about passing the virus to older relatives?

[Chaotic45]

I see more and more mumsnet posts and comments IRL from people sick of the rules, and saying that they will not be following them.

Lots of people are saying they will visit their parents and grandparents even where this means breaking a rule or law.

I do understand why they feel like this. It's not my approach, but I accept that we do all have the right to make our own choices.

What I don't understand though, is why these people are not afraid of unwittingly passing Covid to their relatives? DH and I are extremely careful, but DS is 14 and in a bubble of 200+ kids in his school year. There is no social distancing within his bubble, so we are effectively in a bubble with 200+ families and completely at the mercy of their choices and their luck or bad luck in catching and passing on the virus.

So if I choose to see relatives, especially indoors I feel I do have a risk of passing Covid onto them and arguably being the cause of them becoming extremely unwell or even dying. I wouldn't be able to forgive myself for this.

Do those breaking the rules not worry about this?

Perhaps they sit more than two metres away and/or in the garden. It is undoubtedly possible to break local lockdown rules in a way that doesn't actually increase anyone's risk.

I wonder if there is simply the thought that covid happens to 'other people'. My friend broke the rules and visited his friend - who has now tested positive for it.

Maybe their parents/ grandparents went to see them and they’re willing to take the risk. My parents in their 80s are pretty law abiding in general but more than happy to go wild at Christmas and have 7 or 8 in the house instead of 6. They've lost so many friends and relatives in the last year to non -covid illnesses they just want to enjoy however long they have left!

I'm not in this situation because visiting others is still allowed where I am, but I don't understand why the onus is on the younger people visiting to worry about this?

If I were elderly, given the choice I'd probably take the risk of catching covid to see my children/grandchildren. Obviously not everyone will feel that way but these people are adults and can decide for themselves what risks they're happy with.

Yes, people with particularly vulnerable older relatives face an unpalatable choice. See them, and potentially pass on covid, or don't see them and risk the possibility of them spending the latter part of their lives lonely in a way that you could've mitigated. Neither are great choices are they?

Because my mother is of an age when she could die at any time, nothing to do with corona, and we would rather enjoy the time we have left, then her sit at home alone and unhappy for months and months and then die anyway before the whole corona thing is over. We have weighed up both sides and made the decision that is right for us.

No.
Tomorrow I will break the rules to see a relative who has had an awful few years. I won't go into details because they're outing. That relative is feeling very low and is having a milestone birthday- older than 70. I'm concerned about their mental health.
We're both in area with extra restrictions. I will be driving to their house less than 30 minutes away. I'll be waving through their window. It'll mean the world to them because I haven't seen them since August.
I will be putting no one at risk because I won't be within infection distance.
It's the only time I've broken the rules but that relative is unlikely to see their next birthday so fuck it. I just no longer can stand it for them.

I accept that we do all have the right to make our own choices.

So you accept that some older people are choosing to take a risk and spend time with their families? Or are selfish, feckless younger generations forcing their presence on their older relatives, who are passively and patiently sitting at home alone waiting to be infected?

Because my elderly parents are autonomous adults with full cognitive function, and do not wish to be protected. They wish to continue to see us, and their toddler granddaughter.

My dad is 82. He’s had a stroke and a quadruple heart bypass. He has no idea how much longer he’ll be around, even without Covid. His choice is to continue to make the most of life, and to spend whatever time he has left getting to know his only grandchild. He is fully cognisant of the risk this poses.

We are cautious to an extent - no hugging etc - but we have visited their house, travelled in their car been out for coffee etc and will continue to do so.

I know its often said that people want to enjoy the time they have left but is that the reality? If they actually did get covid would they wish that they had just hung on a bit longer? Sometimes my mum feels this way and it really worries me.

Your mum is an adult and can make her own decisions. As you get older your perspective changes.

@Northernsoullover

I know its often said that people want to enjoy the time they have left but is that the reality? If they actually did get covid would they wish that they had just hung on a bit longer? Sometimes my mum feels this way and it really worries me.

Depends how badly they suffer by trying to avoid covid I presume.

I will still my parents they are only slightly vulnerable due to age (late 60s) no other health conditions however its firmly their choice to continue to see us if they decided the risk was too great for them I'd totally respect it

Out of curiosity OP, how can you forgive yourself for the fact that in the past, you will definitely have passed on a virus that eventually killed someone’s elderly and much-loved relative, possibly even one of your own. Why didn’t you worry about this before? Is it because you were selfish and heartless, or because actually you as an individual only have a limited amount of control over how and why a virus is transmitted and if you tried to ensure that you couldn’t ever be to blame for virus transmission your whole life you would go mad?

FWIW I’m not breaking a lot of rules, I don’t have much opportunity to apart from anything else, but my children are seeing most of their grandparents, which is the grandparents’ choice

I haven't broken any rules yet but having abided by them during the first lockdown and seen the terrible effects of that on parent's dementia and physical abilities, I feel that it is not at all clearcut that life at all and any cost is always the right decision.
Some may therefore decide - and of course the vulnerable person may decide - that if they feel they haven't got that long left, those last months should be spent having as good a life as possible spending time with family or friends rather than never seeing loved ones in person again before death.

No I am not worried. My elder relatives know the risks and would prefer to take them than to see the utter bloodbath of the economy and mental health of the younger generation.

My elderly DPs have also made the decision that they choose to enjoy life rather than just isolate at home. At the beginning of all this we carefully sat in the garden when I visited but now we go into each other's homes, share car journeys and my DM (87!) is out shopping and back to her yoga class.

"I know its often said that people want to enjoy the time they have left but is that the reality?"

I think that is the reality, at least for my Mum it is. A lot of my mother´s friends are now dead. Death isn´t something she fears. She is much more focused on enjoying the here and now than living a much lesser life to try to put off the inevitable for a while.

There are two members in my extende family who are not following the rules (having house parties, meeting friends in pubs) and they still send their kids to stay at grandparents, one who has serious lung disease. These two people are lovely, caring people who love the grandparents very much. The only explanation i have for the rule breaking, and sorry but this is harsh, is that they don’t have any medical knowledge and they probably have, lets say, a low IQ !
So sometimes its lack of intelligence and understanding of the reason for the rules based on medical knowledge, and also lack of understanding of the statistics.

My mum is in her 50s, perfectly healthy and is a secondary school teacher so sees hundreds of other people’s children all day. She has no desire to not see her children or her granddaughter, so as long as we’re happy to see her, she’s happy to see us.

Stop living in fear and watching BBC.
Many older relatives don't want to be locked up.
My mum is over 70, she is not scared, goes shopping, seeing friends and relatives, using public transport. She wants to live and not hide. It is her choice.

all the shielders who are wanting to carry on as normal and say they want to live the remaining time that they have by seeing grandchildren, etc, that’s very admirable but i do think someone close to them just needs to tactfully explain that if they get covid they may die, they may die on a ward surrounded by strangers in PPE, that they may not get the funeral that they hoped for, and if they still decide to carry on with life, then fair do’s to them, they are braver than me

In response to those people rightly pointing out that older relatives have the right to make their own decisions regarding taking risks and seeing their family- I totally agree.

I just struggle with the thought of knowing that it's me who potentially passes them the virus.

We can sit at over 2m, but indoors in mine or their home poses a risk IMO.

I am not trying to be goady, or critical. I'm just trying to understand, and maybe with greater understanding I'll change my own perspective.

Life is for the living 🤷‍♂️