Rule breakers- do you not worry about passing the virus to older relatives?

[Chaotic45]

I see more and more mumsnet posts and comments IRL from people sick of the rules, and saying that they will not be following them.

Lots of people are saying they will visit their parents and grandparents even where this means breaking a rule or law.

I do understand why they feel like this. It's not my approach, but I accept that we do all have the right to make our own choices.

What I don't understand though, is why these people are not afraid of unwittingly passing Covid to their relatives? DH and I are extremely careful, but DS is 14 and in a bubble of 200+ kids in his school year. There is no social distancing within his bubble, so we are effectively in a bubble with 200+ families and completely at the mercy of their choices and their luck or bad luck in catching and passing on the virus.

So if I choose to see relatives, especially indoors I feel I do have a risk of passing Covid onto them and arguably being the cause of them becoming extremely unwell or even dying. I wouldn't be able to forgive myself for this.

Do those breaking the rules not worry about this?

I do find it fascinating how Thatcherite (although I think that she is sometimes unfairly represented) many people are with respect to Corona, where they probably would not be with regard to most other things.

They believe that 'the old' should protect themselves while everyone else 'carries on as normal'.

As a middle aged respectable tax payer who also donates to a food bank, maybe I should do more efficient tax planning and stop all this charity stuff, and leave the financially vulnerable to 'protect themselves' while I 'go on with my life'.

(I won't, as they are not all quite so selfish).

@Flaxmeadow

I am the older generation I only have to touch out my hand and I can touch 70

Please do nothing to protect me.
I have my immune system for that
Go out and live your lives, have fun . Live, love, laugh and be merry.
Don’t wear a mask near me.
I want to see faces
You owe me nothing

Repeat
You owe me nothing

Apart from being massively cringeworthy, it fails to mention that elderly people, quite rightly, are entitled to treatment on NHS, especially their later years. If everyone took the advice in this, erm, poem, the NHS would collapse under the weight of covid patients within weeks

And guilt-trips the vulnerable who feel differently and makes it harder for them to speak up about people who are careless with their lives.

And guilt-trips the vulnerable who feel differently and makes it harder for them to speak up about people who are careless with their lives

So this poster shouldn’t say how she feels in case it upsets someone else who feels differently? She’s entitled to her opinion on it, as is everyone.

People just need to do as they are told!

My mum has a terminal lung condition. I usually see her 3 to 4 times a week.

As I'm in Wales we're under local lockdown so I've chosen not to see her, even though I could say I care for some of her needs. But as I'm still going to work daily it's not worth the risk of potentially passing it on to her.

This will just go on and on if people don't simply do as they are told 🤬

@HelloMissus

I’ve got lots of elderly relatives. They’ve all (except one) taken the view that they have no intention of preventing others from living their lives and have no intention of spending what might be their final years/months in isolation.

In short, they are pragmatic.

So they support a fit for purpose test and trace system which is used to keep the virus levels low enough for everyone to live their lives safely?

Like in South Korea?

This will just go on and on if people don't simply do as they are told

It will go on and on anyway, as ‘doing as you’re told’ doesn’t eliminate viruses.

Quite, SoUtterlyGroundDown

@DumpedByText

People just need to do as they are told!

My mum has a terminal lung condition. I usually see her 3 to 4 times a week.

As I'm in Wales we're under local lockdown so I've chosen not to see her, even though I could say I care for some of her needs. But as I'm still going to work daily it's not worth the risk of potentially passing it on to her.

This will just go on and on if people don't simply do as they are told 🤬

Wow. Can't you go and wave to her through the window or something?

I’ve been really upfront with everyone about DS’ ability to social distance (absolutely none) and the fact that he is at nursery and the fact that DH and I both work with the public. Those who have chosen to spend time with us have done so because the benefits outweighs the risks as far as they are concerned.

ironlaw I doubt they know much about what’s happening in South Korea
For them it means going about their business.
My mum and two aunts went out shopping and to lunch last week.
My mum also went on holiday (in the U.K.) with her mates and an aunt.

They meets friends and are very glad to have visits from me and my children.

They know that they’re his virus might see them off, but then they all say they anything might at their age.
I guess they’ve lived and loved and suffered through a lot at their age!

There's a market in our local town today. Rammed, no social distancing, no masks. Outside though. There's a band playing and everything. Although I'm happy to see people having a nice time, it looked stressful.

I've had an enormous wake up call which has reinforced my concerns.

We had 3 family members over last night. Two in late 40s, one older teen.

At my request we sat 2m apart, much to everyone else's amusement. Although BIL did walk past me to go into the kitchen at one point.

After they had left their sons girlfriend contacted him to say she had just received a positive Covid test. He had been with her and even slept with her yesterday so I've no idea if he knew she had been tested, it is very confusing.

So we now know we spent the evening with someone who has most likely got Covid in our home. He is isolating and getting tested today (which confuses me as he has not got symptoms so I wouldn't have thought he was eligible for a test).

I've cleaned everywhere three times.

Today I was going to meet my mum and step dad in the garden, my dad was coming for dinner (but would have sat a long way away), he is single, very lonely and frail. Our relatives were taking their elderly mum out in the car today.

All of this has been cancelled. If it had happened 24 hours later we would between us have potentially exposed 5 old and vulnerable people.

It's made me even more cautious and I wish we hadn't had our family over.

I’ll admit I’m still seeing my parents and sister but that’s about it. My parents are late 50’s fit and well no underlying medical problems so very low risk. Dh’s parents on the other hand are early 70’s and both have respiratory conditions so we haven’t seen them for a long time. My grandparents are late 70’s/early 80’s and have medical complications so I haven’t seen them in a long time too. When my dp come to visit they sit in my house but the other end of my living room. We don’t hug they don’t hug my dc and they bring a flask of coffee as opposed to me making them drinks. I am confident that we are more than capable of managing the risk ourselves end of story.

@Voolou

I’ll admit I’m still seeing my parents and sister but that’s about it. My parents are late 50’s fit and well no underlying medical problems so very low risk. Dh’s parents on the other hand are early 70’s and both have respiratory conditions so we haven’t seen them for a long time. My grandparents are late 70’s/early 80’s and have medical complications so I haven’t seen them in a long time too. When my dp come to visit they sit in my house but the other end of my living room. We don’t hug they don’t hug my dc and they bring a flask of coffee as opposed to me making them drinks. I am confident that we are more than capable of managing the risk ourselves end of story.

Utterly ridiculous. I don't know how people can be okay with living like this

@Janevaljane of course I can go and wave through the window.

How about a bit of compassion though, I said she has a terminal diagnosis, she can't walk, is on full time oxygen and is very low. Covid would see her off, so that is why I'm not going in the house.

DumpedByText if she's terminal she needs touch, and hugs, and the people she loves to be with her.
What are you actually protecting her from?

@MaxNormal

DumpedByText if she's terminal she needs touch, and hugs, and the people she loves to be with her. What are you actually protecting her from?

This. If she’s terminal, you’re not protecting her from death. If I knew I was going to die soon, I’d want to do it in the company of my loved ones.

@Flaxmeadow
Poem? That made me laugh. I thought I was having a bit of a Positive rant .
Oh well you can’t please everyone and I don’t attempt to try.

@IronLawOfGeometricProgression...whattttt?

@SoUtterlyGroundDown

thank you for getting that this was my personal opinion.
That fact seems to have Gone over the heads of one or two mnetters

[quote DumpedByText]@Janevaljane of course I can go and wave through the window.

How about a bit of compassion though, I said she has a terminal diagnosis, she can't walk, is on full time oxygen and is very low. Covid would see her off, so that is why I'm not going in the house. [/quote]
So what are you protecting her from? Why not offer some comfort during the end of her life instead of protecting from a virus they may never get

*"Utterly ridiculous. I don't know how people can be okay with living like this."
*

We stay positive & keep going. We understand how this infection works, what needs to be done, and that our actions protect or endanger our loved ones, and help shape the future of this pandemic.

So we do the right thing.

We do this for our country, our communities, our friends & families, not because the government tells us to.

Because of the nature of my job I am at high risk of becoming infected, despite PPE.
I have just had to collect a family member from a lockdown area in order that they can be with their family while relative dies at home, C19 is the least of their worries.
As a result we are semi isolating even though we had the virus before lockdown. We have already made the decision to go NC with elderly relatives due to job. I have no desire to be blamed for MIL pegging it.
I have had no contact with her since I returned to work in June.

It's not just about killing relatives though is it. I'm a rule follower.

It's also about those clinically vulnerable people that still have to work and go about their daily lives while following the rules and praying that everyone around them does to.

The old people that say they dont care if they get it. Shame on them to adding to the strain on the healthcare system because I bet you they will be calling for help while they're suffering with it!

They're not thinking about the guilt that their family members might suffer after they're gone either!

Covid has just shown that people are selfish. That they cant follow rules for more than 2 months to keep everyone safe. Its sickening how little concern we have for our fellow human beings.

There are plenty of options that are included in following the rules for social contact that can reduce loneliness and improve mental health.

I'm a rule follower

I’m a rule follower too. There is currently no rule in place that says I can’t visit my 90 year old grandmother, who desperately wants visitors.

“Covid has just shown that people are selfish. That they cant follow rules for more than 2 months to keep everyone safe. Its sickening how little concern we have for our fellow human beings.

There are plenty of options that are included in following the rules for social contact that can reduce loneliness and improve mental health.“

I’m afraid you’re just as guilty of having little concern for others

And that's fine so long as distancing is followed.

There's no need for her to be alone and not visited. Simply follow the guidelines while you're there and ask her to do the same.

We often visit my in laws in the garden. My father in law sits in his wheelchair at their doorway and my mother in law just beside him and we have little camping chairs to sit further away.

We are starting to need waterproofs now but it's fine and it's their only social contact apart from deliveries.

And they can use Zoom also but it's a bit nicer in person. But we'll fall back on that once visits aren't allowed again.