Rule breakers- do you not worry about passing the virus to older relatives?

[Chaotic45]

I see more and more mumsnet posts and comments IRL from people sick of the rules, and saying that they will not be following them.

Lots of people are saying they will visit their parents and grandparents even where this means breaking a rule or law.

I do understand why they feel like this. It's not my approach, but I accept that we do all have the right to make our own choices.

What I don't understand though, is why these people are not afraid of unwittingly passing Covid to their relatives? DH and I are extremely careful, but DS is 14 and in a bubble of 200+ kids in his school year. There is no social distancing within his bubble, so we are effectively in a bubble with 200+ families and completely at the mercy of their choices and their luck or bad luck in catching and passing on the virus.

So if I choose to see relatives, especially indoors I feel I do have a risk of passing Covid onto them and arguably being the cause of them becoming extremely unwell or even dying. I wouldn't be able to forgive myself for this.

Do those breaking the rules not worry about this?

I think it depends how scared of death they are. A lot of my friends' older relatives feel they've reached a 'good' age and cest la vie, so life continues as normal.

@RollaCola84 here

here

It’s their decision really. If my parents felt uncomfortable we wouldn’t see them.

As it is, like another poster said they are just as (if not more) likely to pass it to us than us to them. Cases are higher in their area, Dad is out playing golf and mixing in the club house after. They go to pubs, eat out.
They provide childcare for my brother for his 4 year old girls who are also at nursery. See my brother all the time (he’s a teacher in a secondary school).

To be honest it would be very strange after all that to say ‘you best not come and see us!!’

They want to enjoy their life and see their grandchildren. They want social interaction. They take precautions such as masks/ hand washing and they don’t go to friends’ houses. They definitely don’t shut themselves away though.

@leanishmachine lots of the early restrictions were law, one exercise a day never was. I didn't mention guidance. I know the difference, I write both for a living

I think it's different if you have a 14 year old rather than an under 5. They change so much at that age and grandparents won't get that time back. Current restrictions will likely stay or get worse for the next 6 months - I'm not denying my parents time with my young son if they are happy with the risk. Both work so are in contact with plenty of people already anyway.

I’m still cross about reading and believing the once a day exercise thing on here, sticking to it and then discovering months later it never was a rule.

I think back in March, when we maybe thought the restrictions would be for 6 weeks or so, fine

Now 6 months later, with signs they’ll be increased again I think most grandparents will decide how much of their grandchildren’s lives they are prepared to miss. Yes especially they young ones who change so much. Time is precious and life is short.

When the rules for lockdown were first introduced back in March the ' going out for exercise' being allowed was part of those rules then Michael Gove said on tv ' an hour a day' and it became known as the law!
(Lots of people around here went out much longer than for an hour though I'm sure)

(Lots of people around here went out much longer than for an hour though I'm sure)

As did I, because I knew it wasn’t an actual rule.

why these people are not afraid of unwittingly passing Covid to their relatives?

I try my best to follow the rules, but may well be failing. (story of my life...)

fwiw, my elderly relatives are 5000 miles away & trying to see them involves 2 weeks of quarantine each way, so basically they are pretty safe from me & even from most people in country where I live.

I try to hope that if I was 80 yrs old I'd be marching in the streets protesting How Dare the govt mortgage my grandchildren's future to "save" the likes of me.

An hour a day wasn't the rule. Once a day absolutely was. This is from the March document:

1. Staying at home

You should only leave or be away from your home for very limited purposes:

shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as possible

one form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household

any medical need, including to donate blood, avoid injury or illness, escape risk of harm, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person

travelling for work purposes, but only where you cannot work from home

I agree it because the elderly people themselves are fully functioning adults who take their own decisions.

My aunt has just died of stomach cancer. She was diagnosed 5 weeks before she died. Do I wish I'd broken the rules and continued seeing her from March -July? Yes. I regret following 'the rules' that left her isolated and lonely when she only had weeks left (obvs we didn't know that otherwise I would have broken them).

I let them take the risk. They don't have to see me and my children if they don't want to.

I've always been so glad that (pre Covid) I happened to take my DC to visit my parents on a day I wouldn't usually have done. And, oddly - not at all a touch feely family - I gave my dad a big hug. He died that evening, sort of out of the blue, and I often think of how lucky I was that the very last time I saw him was nice for both of us; and how awful it is for people who regret not seeing family before they die.
I read somewhere that those in elderly care homes live on average 12 to 18 months after moving in so many will die without having seen family for months. I'm not commenting on whether that is the right or wrong approach, just that it's heartbreaking.

There's a family member who was in bed last week with a cough and a temperature "that's definitely not covid" visiting my parents today. With her family of teenagers who could easily have it and be asymptomatic.

My "advised to Shield" parents chose to accept her assurances because they didn't want to upset her, but I know my mum will now worry herself sick for a fortnight about it.

If my parents get it and spend weeks suffering in hospital, or god forbid, die. I'll be feeling extremely stabby towards the covid-denier that have it to them. I won't lie.

There is a risk when seeing elderly relatives. The risk is that you might be suffering from covid, that you might be in the contagious phase, that you might give it to them and they might die. But there’s a risk of not seeing them as well. The risk is that they might feel lonely, upset, that they may miss out on the joy of family in their last years. There’s also a risk that they may suffer from the lack of practical support that you can give if they are a little infirm. I thought through these risks and came down firmly on the side of continuing social contact as normal. It is for this reason that three times I and other family members have made a 700-mile round trip journey to see my 90-year old step-father, staying a week at a time. We dispensed with any social distancing and hugged each other as normal, sat close to each other (so he could hear us) and had normal, vital, family time. True, it is a risk, but one that I, and he, have decided to take. If I or my children come down with covid, the silver lining will be the knowledge that the next time I see my step-father he will be that much more safe.

I am living within the rules, ironically that actually increases my risk of catching it / passing it on. Yet a couple who work from home and has shopping delivered will be breaking the law by going to see family twice a week. More to the point I can go and sit in their family's house (work) yet they couldn't - despite me having much higher risk factors - DC in school, working in an office etc. You can see why people break the rules / law.

(Additional restrictions area)

I've just realised that I am the 'older relative' (how did that happen; I'm not that old?)

I fully anticipate being around for at least a couple of decades, but one never knows what's round the next corner. I don't want anyone to protect me. I don't want to avoid seeing the people who give my life meaning 'in case'.

And thanks, I don't need some patronising person, of any age, telling me how awful a serious or fatal illness can be. I witnessed a relative die slowly and awfully in intensive care, eventually with just about every physical function, including breathing, artificially done. That was years ago - there have always been many ways of ending up in that situation unexpectedly and Covid is just one more.

I don’t have any elderly relatives, or anyone close to me that is clinically vulnerable. My mum is the oldest person in my family, at 56 and she works in a school, so is as much at risk there as she is from me. That’s not to say I would completely ignore the rules of course, I wear a mask and socially distance where I can, I just don’t have anyone close to me who is particularly at risk.

@Dumpypumpy

all the shielders who are wanting to carry on as normal and say they want to live the remaining time that they have by seeing grandchildren, etc, that’s very admirable but i do think someone close to them just needs to tactfully explain that if they get covid they may die, they may die on a ward surrounded by strangers in PPE, that they may not get the funeral that they hoped for, and if they still decide to carry on with life, then fair do’s to them, they are braver than me

Yeah I'm sure older people are completely oblivious to the fact that they can die. Oh and they can die of only covid, nothing else. No other cause of deaths exists anymore

All the elderly I know are the least likely to follow the rules. They're all living their normal lives. For a lot of older people their daily trips to the shops to chat to people is an important part of their lives. They're just as likely to infect younger family members, possibly more likely as younger family members, either adult children or young grandchildren are generally avoiding busy shops etc plus like many others my parents are not willing to stop seeing their family for potentially a year or longer.
Also I know of quite of a few 80+ Yr olds who have recovered fine from the virus, as the majority do, for most people covid is not a death sentence . People should have the autonomy to to make their own choices.

Dowser
This

Threads like this always make me laugh. Firstly the washing hands declaration. Did no one wash their hands before March 2020? Secondly the way everyone is absolutely sure that when they see their relatives / friends they take such precautions that there's no risk. Just like Covid secure workplaces, there's no such thing.

@Northernsoullover

I wonder if there is simply the thought that covid happens to 'other people'. My friend broke the rules and visited his friend - who has now tested positive for it.

I think this happens a lot. My ILs are currently still getting together in a group of 10 several times a week with no distancing or anything. They just don't think it'll happen to them. If it was just so PIL could see the grandkids they could at least visit on different days to reduce the risk of infecting each other (and there'd be more room to space out). But they just don't care.