Rule breakers- do you not worry about passing the virus to older relatives?

[Chaotic45]

I see more and more mumsnet posts and comments IRL from people sick of the rules, and saying that they will not be following them.

Lots of people are saying they will visit their parents and grandparents even where this means breaking a rule or law.

I do understand why they feel like this. It's not my approach, but I accept that we do all have the right to make our own choices.

What I don't understand though, is why these people are not afraid of unwittingly passing Covid to their relatives? DH and I are extremely careful, but DS is 14 and in a bubble of 200+ kids in his school year. There is no social distancing within his bubble, so we are effectively in a bubble with 200+ families and completely at the mercy of their choices and their luck or bad luck in catching and passing on the virus.

So if I choose to see relatives, especially indoors I feel I do have a risk of passing Covid onto them and arguably being the cause of them becoming extremely unwell or even dying. I wouldn't be able to forgive myself for this.

Do those breaking the rules not worry about this?

@Dumpypumpy

all the shielders who are wanting to carry on as normal and say they want to live the remaining time that they have by seeing grandchildren, etc, that’s very admirable but i do think someone close to them just needs to tactfully explain that if they get covid they may die, they may die on a ward surrounded by strangers in PPE, that they may not get the funeral that they hoped for, and if they still decide to carry on with life, then fair do’s to them, they are braver than me

Surely most shielders know this? Unless they also have an illness affecting mental capacity, I don’t see why they wouldn’t be well aware of this.

My nan is the only 'older' one and don't see her often as it's too much taking the kids as theyre small and it's a tiny place.
MIL is vulnerable but she won't not see us we saw her and fil when in full lockdown and continued to do so. My father is our bubble and wasnr not going to see my mum. So we saw parents. And would if we were locked down again.
I lost 2 family members in lockdown non covid. We didn't get to say goodbye none of us can get thag back. It would of made their last days happier.

“ I just struggle with the thought of knowing that it's me who potentially passes them the virus. ”

I really think it is the cruelest thing that people are being made to feel so responsible and blame-worthy for a virus doing what a virus does. I’m not saying take no precautions at all - I have a poorly family member who for years we have kept our distance from if we have a bug because it could see her off. But there have been viruses before and will be viruses again that are mild for most but will be serious for some people and we have to be able to handle that psychologically in the future

The people that live over the road have had their nan (in her 90s) visiting the whole time, all through lock down. At first I was shocked but the more I thought about it, the more I understood.
If you’ve got to the age of 90odd you know you’ve not got lots of time left, would you want that time miserable indoors on your own or surrounded by generations of your family enjoying the time you have & making the most of grandchildren (the couple over the road have 3 young kids)
I came to the conclusion that in that position I would say sod it & carry on seeing family & being happy

@IdrisElbow to you. I hope you get a negative result ASAP. As this thread shows it's really not a cut and dry situation.

All the shielders who are wanting to carry on as normal and say they want to live the remaining time that they have by seeing grandchildren, etc, that’s very admirable but i do think someone close to them just needs to tactfully explain that if they get covid they may die, they may die on a ward surrounded by strangers in PPE, that they may not get the funeral that they hoped for, and if they still decide to carry on with life, then fair do’s to them, they are braver than me

Do you think they don’t already know this? So many people talking about older relatives as if they were small children, not quite in possession of all their own faculties.

Agree that it’s slightly more complicated if people are shielding, but my parents most certainly aren’t; they spent today browsing their way around John Lewis!

but i do think someone close to them just needs to tactfully explain that if they get covid they may die, they may die on a ward surrounded by strangers in PPE, that they may not get the funeral that they hoped for, and if they still decide to carry on with life, then fair do’s to them, they are braver than me

Why do you assume that they need that to be explained to them?

Are all older people devoid of the capacity to process information and devise their own perspective unless it’s ‘tactfully explained’ to them by someone younger?

@Chaotic45

In response to those people rightly pointing out that older relatives have the right to make their own decisions regarding taking risks and seeing their family- I totally agree.

I just struggle with the thought of knowing that it's me who potentially passes them the virus.

We can sit at over 2m, but indoors in mine or their home poses a risk IMO.

I am not trying to be goady, or critical. I'm just trying to understand, and maybe with greater understanding I'll change my own perspective.

I think that's understandable. It's just that the choice not to see them, especially if it's made against their wishes, also has a potentially tragic worst case scenario. Some people are stuck between a rock and a hard place and I think if you can get your head round that it will aid your understanding.

Because they are grown ups who can make their own decisions. No one is forcing themselves on elderly relatives - it’s a joint decision based on both parties weighing up the risks and taking many factors into account.

"I don't understand why the onus is on the younger people visiting to worry about this" Interesting that you don't understand why you should be responsible for the consequences of your own actions if breaking laws. I wonder how common that is.

@Frazzled13. i am not so sure that some of them have thought in detail about what getting covid loooks like, i certainly dont think my shielding grandparent has. It happpens to others. Some people dont watch the news much and dont see the reports on covid wards, some dont realise a funeral is 20 people sat on stools in an empty room with no hymns ( most are churchy people) . I cant actually think of a tactful way to explain this to my vulnerable members so i am hoping shielding kicks in next week. I think they will follow the rules if they hear it from Boris.

Interesting that you don't understand why you should be responsible for the consequences of your own actions if breaking laws. I wonder how common that is.

But presumably the elderly people are therefore breaking the law too? Why is it only the young person’s fault?

@BigBadVoodooHat

but i do think someone close to them just needs to tactfully explain that if they get covid they may die, they may die on a ward surrounded by strangers in PPE, that they may not get the funeral that they hoped for, and if they still decide to carry on with life, then fair do’s to them, they are braver than me

Why do you assume that they need that to be explained to them?

Are all older people devoid of the capacity to process information and devise their own perspective unless it’s ‘tactfully explained’ to them by someone younger?

Yes they are in denial or just dont know what happens when you get covid

I think shielders are very well aware that if they get covid they may die. For one thing, they probably wouldn´t be shielding if they didn´t know that. They also can read the same websites, watch the same news reports as anyone else, so the realities of the situation won´t have passed them by. I think if I tactfully explained the situation to my mother, she would ask if I thought she was stupid as well as old, and to stop being a patronizing arse.

I don´t know what to advise you about the guilt, OP. If my mother got Covid from me, yes of course I would feel guilty about that and be very upset. But at my mother´s age I am prepared to put her wishes ahead of my own when it comes to this, and let her decide what level of contact she wants.

@TempsPerdu

All the shielders who are wanting to carry on as normal and say they want to live the remaining time that they have by seeing grandchildren, etc, that’s very admirable but i do think someone close to them just needs to tactfully explain that if they get covid they may die, they may die on a ward surrounded by strangers in PPE, that they may not get the funeral that they hoped for, and if they still decide to carry on with life, then fair do’s to them, they are braver than me

Do you think they don’t already know this? So many people talking about older relatives as if they were small children, not quite in possession of all their own faculties.

Agree that it’s slightly more complicated if people are shielding, but my parents most certainly aren’t; they spent today browsing their way around John Lewis!

I am talking about shielders, in particular my area is top 3 areas for covid. I suppose i would want i bit of a disclaimer from them if they still wanted to look after my kids. I would like to make sure that they do understand the risks. I think you might be surprised how many really dont have a grasp of the risks and what happens if they get ill

@sonjadog

I think shielders are very well aware that if they get covid they may die. For one thing, they probably wouldn´t be shielding if they didn´t know that. They also can read the same websites, watch the same news reports as anyone else, so the realities of the situation won´t have passed them by. I think if I tactfully explained the situation to my mother, she would ask if I thought she was stupid as well as old, and to stop being a patronizing arse.

I don´t know what to advise you about the guilt, OP. If my mother got Covid from me, yes of course I would feel guilty about that and be very upset. But at my mother´s age I am prepared to put her wishes ahead of my own when it comes to this, and let her decide what level of contact she wants.

Hahaha your mum sounds great ! Ok well i am thinking i am basing my opinion on all the old people i know, and my instincts are that they wouldn’t have a clue about what happens if they get covid, they definitely dont read news article, dont even have iPhones. They prob only watch news headlines . But that’s only my experience of old relatives, and so I apologise to all the shielders who have chosen not to protect themselves and who think i am being a little harsh on their mental capacity

But presumably the elderly people are therefore breaking the law too? Why is it only the young person’s fault?

Apparently older people are all too stupid to understand the facts of a situation and make their own decisions, or they’re in denial 🤷‍♀️

Yes they are in denial or just dont know what happens when you get covid

Are you genuinely being this patronising, or is this an attempt at a joke that I don’t get?

@BigBadVoodooHat

Yes they are in denial or just dont know what happens when you get covid

Are you genuinely being this patronising, or is this an attempt at a joke that I don’t get?

This is true for the old people that i know,but now i am reading everyone’s response on here i realise i am tarring everyone with the same brush, so i have obviously got it wrong. Sorry to offend. But honestly it is my experience of elderly shielders that they are not very informed

My nanna died this morning. She spent her last few months isolated and lonely away from her family with only my dad looking after her because we were all trying to protect her from covid. The guilt I feel is immense.
I have covid symptoms myself now so can't even comfort my dad.

@Jrobhatch29

My nanna died this morning. She spent her last few months isolated and lonely away from her family with only my dad looking after her because we were all trying to protect her from covid. The guilt I feel is immense. I have covid symptoms myself now so can't even comfort my dad.

Oh this is so heartbreaking, so sad her death had to be like this, and your poor dad, too. I hope you find a way through this pain you must be feeling x

I'm not really a rule breaker, but I don't have any elderly relatives apart from my mum who lives 200 miles away. I have only seen her once since January.

In my more rebellious moments, especially when I see and hear about so many older people thinking the rules don't apply to them, I do think "fuck it all".

😥

@Jrobhatch29

My nanna died this morning. She spent her last few months isolated and lonely away from her family with only my dad looking after her because we were all trying to protect her from covid. The guilt I feel is immense. I have covid symptoms myself now so can't even comfort my dad.

I'm so sorry @Jrobhatch29. Your poor nana and family :(

@sonjadog

Because my mother is of an age when she could die at any time, nothing to do with corona, and we would rather enjoy the time we have left, then her sit at home alone and unhappy for months and months and then die anyway before the whole corona thing is over. We have weighed up both sides and made the decision that is right for us.

I don't know how anyone could have a problem with this.

In short, no