Rule breakers- do you not worry about passing the virus to older relatives?

[Chaotic45]

I see more and more mumsnet posts and comments IRL from people sick of the rules, and saying that they will not be following them.

Lots of people are saying they will visit their parents and grandparents even where this means breaking a rule or law.

I do understand why they feel like this. It's not my approach, but I accept that we do all have the right to make our own choices.

What I don't understand though, is why these people are not afraid of unwittingly passing Covid to their relatives? DH and I are extremely careful, but DS is 14 and in a bubble of 200+ kids in his school year. There is no social distancing within his bubble, so we are effectively in a bubble with 200+ families and completely at the mercy of their choices and their luck or bad luck in catching and passing on the virus.

So if I choose to see relatives, especially indoors I feel I do have a risk of passing Covid onto them and arguably being the cause of them becoming extremely unwell or even dying. I wouldn't be able to forgive myself for this.

Do those breaking the rules not worry about this?

@Dumpypumpy Thank you! I had a baby in May and thankfully I decided to take her to meet my nanna before my older boys went back to school. I'm so grateful she got to meet my daughter. I feel so sad she spent the end of her life alone

We are in a pandemic, this is real life!!!!
Rule breakers are possibly effectively passing on the virus, that's not fair on others.
Sorry if you cant see your family, but keeping safe and not breaking the law is more important!! But obviously the majority doesn't think this and are happy to break the law and possibly infect others !!

A friend of mine had seen his parents since March, his Mother just died of a heart attack and is now guilt ridden.

Have been seeing my parents throughout using sensible precautions as I would have done before this happened as my parents have both had cancer.

Probably helps that my parents and I have been using PPE for over thirty years now in the jobs we do.

Jrob I am so sorry to hear your news, but lovely that she got to meet her new great granddaughter. It brings me comfort to know that FIL meet my youngest before he passed away when she was a few weeks old.

I took my DD to the seaside when we were allowed to travel again. The average age of visitors there was 70+ none of whom were interested in social distancing or living in fear. Whilst many are afraid and choosing to stay away from friends and relatives, many more are wishing to just live their lives. My 95yo neighbour has had visitors throughout the last 6 months. She insisted that she wouldn't be mollycoddled by a government who didn't have a clue. That she had lived through wars and polio and smallpox and if Covid was going to get her then at least she wouldn't have spent her last months living lonely in fear. She tested positive for Covid last week and went on to a covid Ward with a 'do not resuscitate' request. She came home from hospital yesterday and phoned me to say she'd had worse colds.

Make of that what you will.

How many times do you think we've passed flu on to people who've passed it on to vulnerable relatives who've then gone on to die from it?? I lost my dad to seasonal flu. He caught it from someone else, but only now that people are told to care by law do they actually stop and think about their actions. But even then, you cannot and should not be held responsible for how a virus works.

DM is early 80s. She and her friends have decided to crack on with life. Two friends in the group have died in as many months, both cancer one of which was identified very late.

She's reached average life expectancy. She has various health niggles but nothing of significant threat. She ended up in hospital for 10 days at the start of the year (and had a stubborn Covid like chest infection...) She is of sound mind.

She wanted us to go shopping, something she hadn't done this year, so we got into my car to go to another town. We had lunch in a cafe. I then broke local lockdown by going into her house which was far lower risk than being in the cafe! Oh and we both live in areas of low virus rate, her's lower than mine.

I spent the latter end of my childhood regretting that I didn't get chance to see my dad the day he died, no usual hug or kiss.
DM is mortal too. I would regret keeping away when she is willing to see me.

I don't believe i life at all costs. I believe in living while you can.

Sorry if you cant see your family, but keeping safe and not breaking the law is more important!!

No, my parents are more important than ridiculous rules.

I’m a secondary teacher in a local lockdown area. I think it’s crazy how I can be in a close space with 150 pupils a day yet am banned from indoor contact with people from my own household outside of my work hours.

The only person I have left who is older is my mum and she's 75. Being 75 doesn't mean she is incapable of making her own decisions and assessing risks for herself. She wants to see me, I want to see her and so we do.

This attempt to label people as selfish for wanting to do normal things such as visit their parents, go for a coffee, have a meal, visit a pub, is just wrong on so many levels. We have many many viruses that can harm the elderly and the vulnerable. This one isn't special and the one that comes after won't be.

but i do think someone close to them just needs to tactfully explain that if they get covid they may die, they may die on a ward surrounded by strangers in PPE, that they may not get the funeral that they hoped for, and if they still decide to carry on with life, then fair do’s to them, they are braver than me

They could die of something else, with few/no visitors after spending months not seeing anyone.

I know which choice my relatives are making

@motherrunner

I’m a secondary teacher in a local lockdown area. I think it’s crazy how I can be in a close space with 150 pupils a day yet am banned from indoor contact with people from my own household outside of my work hours.

Meant people from OUTSIDE my household.

I'd feel less guilty about accidentally killing my elderly, dementia ridden gran by passing on a virus than I would admit leaving her to die slowly thinking no one cares enough to visit her.

(I don't actually have the choice because she's in a home. I don't expect I will ever see her again, or that she'll have the chance to ever meet her great grandchild. I will not forgive the government for this.)

Secondary teacher here too. It's bonkers. I have a decent social life at work 😂

*about leaving her to die slowly

@Hercwasonaroll Every school day is a party day!

Rule breakers are possibly effectively passing on the virus, that's not fair on others

I could pass on any virus to anyone at any time. Chances are we have ALL unknowingly passed on something that has killed someone. Unless you, and thats a generic you, have always taken steps to make sure NOTHING you're potentially carrying is transmitted to other people then I fail to see why guilt tripping about this particular virus is appropriate or reasonable.

@Fawnfour

We are in a pandemic, this is real life!!!! Rule breakers are possibly effectively passing on the virus, that's not fair on others. Sorry if you cant see your family, but keeping safe and not breaking the law is more important!! But obviously the majority doesn't think this and are happy to break the law and possibly infect others !!

You need to interrogate the idea that breaking the rules is automatically unsafe and going to pass on the virus. It's perfectly possible to break them in a way that poses no risk at all, for example if you sit in a private garden two metres away from each other. Equally, the things we are allowed and indeed encouraged to do have led to transmissions: schools reopening, for example. Mine are in school fwiw but this idea that within the rules=safe and outside the rules=covid transmitting is not reflective of reality.

Agreed @CrappleUmble. I feel way safer meeting my friend for a socially distanced walk (local lockdown area, this isn’t banned as outside but looks like it will from Monday) than I do at work in front of 150 pupils but schools are ‘Covid secure’ 🤷‍♀️

Sorry if you cant see your family, but keeping safe and not breaking the law is more important!

Nope, seeing my terminally ill dad with my sisters and helping him plan his own funeral is more important.

My mum is 70 and very active, healthy and is perfectly able to make her own choices. She is out kayaking regularly and her and her 78yo partner went sailing all this week. She has decided that she is not prepared to waste months hiding in her house not seeing the people she loves and doing activities which bring her joy for a tiny risk of dying.

I fully support her attitude. My dad died a few years ago age 69 of a heart attack and we are all fully aware that you can’t hide from death forever and that life needs to be lived whilst you can.

My DP got very cross after about 4 months of lockdown that they couldn’t see their grandchildren. My mum was very depressed. We let them take their own decision - fully informed about what we and the DC were doing and our level of risk. We have stepped back a little now the schools are back, but if DM wants to hug my children, she can. I did insist that my DB tell my DP what he was doing - is breaking pretty much all rules - so that they could take an informed decision about contact.

@motherrunner

Agreed *@CrappleUmble*. I feel way safer meeting my friend for a socially distanced walk (local lockdown area, this isn’t banned as outside but looks like it will from Monday) than I do at work in front of 150 pupils but schools are ‘Covid secure’ 🤷‍♀️

I would too in your shoes!

It is because of the definition of 'Covid secure' that is being applied in schools that I feel I have to stay outside and keep a 2m+ distance from anyone else including my parents who are technically in my support bubble. Like others, I do not want to be the person who infects anyone even though I know I will probably have infected people with other illnesses in the past.

I didn’t realise it was against the rules to see elderly relatives now? Has something changed?? I have been seeing my grandmother..

There is a difference in rule breakers and people bending the one rule to see elderly relatives.