New rules Monday.

[PineappleUpsideDownCake]

Looks like England may be following Scotland. Or parts of England? Or new levels to be announced!? Who knows...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54457377

Looks like the commons might have had enough of these pointless rules which make little sense too:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-the-pm-is-in-trouble-and-he-could-be-about-to-face-a-parliamentary-defeat-over-the-10pm-pub-curfew-12098504

I’ve never really understood what closing the pubs at 10pm was to achieve. Nor the rule of six where you can meet one person from six different households at once... but two families of four can’t meet. Monday may be interesting

And I’m all for following rules... I just like to follow ones which make sense

“I’ve never really understood what closing the pubs at 10pm was to achieve. Nor the rule of six where you can meet one person from six different households at once... but two families of four can’t meet. Monday may be interesting“

It is how in feel about some stores closing too soon. When Walmart was open 24 hours, I felt less people were shopping there in the morning but now it has gotten too crowded.

If I hear one more person blame mixed messages for what's going on I will scream!

Too many people in this country are rebellious and only consider their own needs. So people will do whatever they want to do no matter what.

This is why even if if we had a world beating test and trace system, it wouldn't prevent things. Just think of the SNP MP who didn't just pop to the shops after her test as some people do, but did two 5 hour journeys on public transport. Not to mention others that give false details at pubs and restaurants etc.

So what to do? Let people go about as usual and those who are vulnerable should just stay home and shield as best they can?

Or have another lockdown, let the economy tank, dish out money to companies and fraudsters and let future generations face decades of austerity trying to pay for it all?

Seems like everyone, government and citizens alike are between a rock and a hard place.

‘So over it’ like a bunch of teenagers. 🙄 Well that’s a shame because it’s not going anywhere. There is no way any government is going to just ‘let us get on with normal life’ because exponential growth will mean we can’t anyway.

Also meant to say, the tighter restrictions are suggested to be for 2 weeks I think not permanent.

I just hope they don't say schools have to be open in half term, my DCs need a break.

@Oaktree55 you wrote 'Look at countries like Brazil to see what happens without measures. Bodies in street territory.'

Could you please point me to a source for this information? I read Brazilian news online all the time, out of interest for the country and also to keep practicing my Portuguese - and I can't remember anything major like this happening in Brazil. I've asked my loads of Brazilian friends and also my in-laws living in Brazil and nobody is aware of 'bodies in streets'. But for the third time I'm reading on MN that in Brazil there are corpses on the streets? When I search 'corpses on the streets' in Portuguese all I get are old news from Ecuador. So I wonder if perhaps you are getting Brazil confused with Ecuador? Or I might be missing something?

I’m on twitter and someone who I follow is a taxi driver in my city ( Liverpool) who has been working all hours to keep his house and has his daughter 50/50. His MH has been declining and has had to reduce tone with his dd to work more hours.

When there was talk last night of our area possibly being affected by the complete closure of pubs and restaurants, he said it would be “the final nail in my coffin”.

I’ve also read about too many suicides lately of mainly young people.
My ds is 17 and in sixth form. He has Aspergers and anxiety and his MH is suffering to the extent he has recently been described AD’s. We talk constantly about how important it is to address our MH issues as my biggest fear is losing him and he assured me he would never do anything like that. However, he did tell me a few days ago that one of his best friends tried to take his own life recently which broke my heart.

There are so many “victims” of COVID-19, they’re just not all visible.

Lastly, hardly anyone I know has been following the rules and then wonders why we’re in this terrible situation. It’s like a rebellion gone wrong.

I heard form someone in the know that from Mon 19th, it will be 2 week half term and a full lockdown.... only Supermarkets/food shops can open.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Be honest, you tweeted @Number10cat and asked didn't you?

My fear is it will be like March when they said it will only be for a little while then they kept it going for longer snd longer. I can’t see them lifting restrictions once they are enforced.

No restrictions they put in place will work while it’s running rampant through schools. We will be destroying the economy again when only 3% of transmission happened in restaurants. 44% is happening in schools! But now Boris has said he won’t close schools he can’t, even though it would be the quickest way to get numbers down again.

That's what I've wondered worried
Lots of people will be sacrificing themselves but it will surely still be spreading.

Its going to keep spreading because its a virus. It's like expecting humans to be able to control getting a cold. Restrictions arent in place to 'beat' the virus. They are in place to make people feel like something is being done, and it might scare some people enough to make them stay at home and prolong them being infected. Restrictions in Manchester, Liverpool, up north, have all shown they dont actually stop the spread.

Restrictions are in place to slow the spread. That’s all they are ever for.if people ignore them then of course they won’t work and they will being in tougher ones because they won’t allow exponential growth as it may be overwhelming. Of course we don’t know this until we try but I doubt they will allow the virus to spread unrestricted at this point.

Livelovebehappy: So we go into another big lockdown for two weeks, infection rate/deaths decrease. Then restrictions are eased again; infections increase, deaths increase and back to total lockdown again. What’s the point??? We’re just going to be yo-yoing.

Exactly. It all seems so ridiculously pointless.

This has been going on for 7 months now and there’s still no form of control over it so I don’t know what they think two weeks of lockdown is going to achieve.

This is why people are getting so fed up - there doesn’t seem much logic to most things in relation to long term goals.

@kantswife

and, to everyone moaning about how we can't cope with any new restrictions, you all must be in a very privileged position that you and your whole family is basically Safe and won't ever feel the effects of a virus that has killed and will continue to kill.

To be honest, I would argue that you’re in an incredibly privileged position, that you and your whole family are basically safe and won’t ever feel the devastating effects of a lockdown.

There are 2 people in our family who have lost their homes as a direct result of the lockdown. One is currently in B&B provided by the council. Her 2 children are sleeping on a pull out sofa at another relatives house so that they can still attend school (the b&b is almost 90 minutes from the school. It’s just too much for a 6 year old). The other family have been able to move in with another relative, where the 5 of them sleep between 2 bedrooms.
Off the top of my head, I know 14 people (Friends, family and close acquaintances) who have already lost their jobs, another 5 are expecting it once furlough ends in a couple of weeks. I also know of 2 (previously) successful businesses that have folded and 2 that are on the edge. These and big conglomerates. These are individual people making an honest living.

I volunteer at our local food bank. We can not keep up with demand. We have people literally begging us to help them feed their families. We also ran a school uniform swap this year. We had parents crying, so ashamed that they were unable to buy their children’s uniforms.

Posted too soon, but @kantswife I’m not sure your definition of privilege. But none of that is mine. Safe doesn’t just mean ‘free of the virus’. It also means fed, clothed, warm, and in secure housing (not a pull out couch or a b&b). Not having covid-19 means a lot less when you don’t know where you next meal is coming from.

I honestly don't understand how people can simplify this problem and say things like "we just need to get on with it now."

We need to stop the virus from spreading so quickly that hospitals become overwhelmed. If hospitals become overwhelmed with COVID, they won't be able to do anything else. Hospitals are still catching up from the first wave. Yes, we need to "learn to live with COVID," but part of that needs to be by controlling the spread. Otherwise, too many people will get COVID at once and no one will be able to access basic medical care (even for non-COVID related issues). Additionally, many people who would have survived COVID with medical treatment will die because the NHS will not be able to treat them effectively -- potentially increasing the case fatality rate by a lot.

If case numbers are low enough, an effective track and trace system could potentially allow us to return to some semblance of normal.

Unfortunately, our T&T has failed us and has not been effective or efficient enough. Our numbers are now too high to control through T&T, especially with such a poor T&T system and we have essentially lost control. The only way now to get the numbers right down is to prevent transmission through lockdown measures. Lockdown measures are not a management plan, they are an emergency measure that need to be put in place when control measures have failed.

Sadly, the opportunity afforded by the first lockdown to re-open carefully whilst controlling the spread seems to be passing us. We opened too quickly, with not enough in place to control the spread. We will now likely need to put in place some significant measures to get the numbers down again.

If you are annoyed with the government, be annoyed at how they wasted the opportunity to reopen carefully. They put lots of money into Eat Out to Help Out and paid people to crowd into restaurants, instead of encouraging people to support hospitality by ordering takeaways. They put virtually no thought, funding, or resource into how schools could be opened safely. What we are seeing now was the inevitable outcome of these decisions -- it could have been done differently.

Hopefully the government will have learnt something from this experience and once the numbers are right down again, a more thoughtful reopening plan paired with more effective T&T might make the next reopening more successful.

We need to stop the virus from spreading so quickly that hospitals become overwhelmed. If hospitals become overwhelmed with COVID, they won't be able to do anything else. Hospitals are still catching up from the first wave. Yes, we need to "learn to live with COVID," but part of that needs to be by controlling the spread.

I saw on the news this morning that of the 20 areas of England that have been put in local lockdown, only 1 of them has seen a drop in infection rates.

This potential two weeks of lockdown will have no effect.

Whilst a lot of society is still open, whilst people are still using public transport, whilst people are still going into work places and whilst schools are still open, the virus will continue to flourish.

The only time the spread was controlled was when when the whole country was in complete lockdown for numerous months.

I doubt two weeks of some people not leaving their house is going to do much.

I agree, I think we are beyond the point in which a 2 week "circuit break" lockdown alone will be effective.

@youngestisapsycho

I heard form someone in the know that from Mon 19th, it will be 2 week half term and a full lockdown.... only Supermarkets/food shops can open.

Given some areas still have cases under 10 or in teens per 100,000 and not rising particularly fast , this seems unlikely across the country

@PennyDreadfuI

I'm in the north east and the local lockdown here has done absolutely nothing. When it started we were on about 100/100,000 and now we're on about 450/100,000. So tighter restrictions here seem inevitable. I really hope that they're over in good time for Christmas though, particularly if non essential shops have to close.

I know it's being said that 'local lockdowns aren't working'. They clearly aren't. But they aren't lockdowns either.

Schools and colleges are fully open which is a key spreader. Universities are open which is the other major spreader in the university cities up north.

Offices are open. Shops are open. Pubs, bars, restaurants and cafes etc are open.

Rule of 6, arbitrary restrictions on household mixing which are not enforced are not going to make any difference given the above.

I know it's being said that 'local lockdowns aren't working'. They clearly aren't. But they aren't lockdowns either
Plus of course, their purpose may not be drive infection rates down very low, but just to slow the rate at which they are rising - in which case, they may be working, but we can't see because we don't know what they would have been without local lockdown. But the rate of rise may have been slowed.

@BeNiceLikeIRL But there's no real difference between local restrictions and national ones. Rule of 6 and curfews came in on a national level. The only difference is household mixing, but are people even following those rules and how are they being enforced? Would it make any difference anyway? It's not like there's no house parties in Manchester or Newcastle. I live in one of these areas with restrictions and people are still in and out of each others houses.

When London was hit badly in March there was a full lockdown to get it under control. It's not helpful when people call the half arsed measures up north lockdowns and say they haven't worked.

As long as the schools are full and universities open then that's enough for the virus to spread. Then you've still got offices and shops etc on top of hospitality.