The doctors are all being paid to say the diagnosis is covid - it doesn't exist

[treebarking]

This is what I heard when I turned on the news just a minute ago...by demonstrators in London today...I'm actually really shocked. Do people really think this?? There were A LOT of people at the demonstration...

Because heart disease and cancers aren’t highly contagious

The end game..

But not just the UK has restrictions. Worldwide, 30 million confirmed cases. Close to a million dead. That's with lockdowns, border closures, etc. Can you not imagine the mayhem if it had gone completely unchecked?

I don't think other countries went into lockdown to help privatise the NHS! You really need to read some decent articles and get abreast of the basics. Google exponential growth, for starters.

[quote Sarahpaula]@mrshoho instead of having a cabinet to rule over us all.

In my opinion there should be more loacalised administration systems.
Each county could have a centre to make sure that every person in that area gets basic income, enough food and shelter, without mortgages. They could operate from a point that:
Every human being should have their basic needs supplied.

That is one idea. But what is important is that we should be having conversations about what could be alternatives to the old Government system, and not just let the old corrupt government system run on and on forever. It is a corrupt and old fashioned system[/quote]
Your idea sounds very much like a communist world. The idea on paper sounds great and fair but we all know the reality of communism is far from it. There would always need to be a leader and as history shows corruption and abuses of power go hand in hand with communism.

We in the UK elected this government but there are alternatives. The Labour party should be the choice for people wanting a more socialist society with better funding for schools and health and social care. Unfortunately their in-party problems and the brexit debate lost them the last election I believe. We are stuck with this government for the time being but it won't be forever.

I have a friend who believes in all this stuff. I also know someone who died (aged 50. No underlying conditions) from Coronavirus. Had all the typical symptoms except my friend insists that he actually died of something else.
She gets all her news from YouTube as you can’t trust the mainstream media.

@Mintychoc1

As a doctor I am certain that the number of Covid deaths is exaggerated . I have been asked several times by the coroners office to state Covid 19 as cause of death in people who haven’t been tested. I haven’t done it but my colleagues have.

So had you filled out a MCCD and then referred to the Coroner and they then asked you to change it ?

My mum never left the house for 6 weeks before she died,. For the last 4 weeks it was just her and dad as mum had a lot of health issues and we wanted to keep her safe ( this was before lockdown). Two weeks after lockdown, mum died. Her cause of death was put as covid despite the fact that she was not on a resp ward as her breathing was fine and dad has been fit and well before and after her death. To be honest as time has passed we, as a family, are beginning to wonder if mum ever had it as there was no-where she could have caught it from and it's strange that the only person she did have contact with was an asthmatic 83 year old who never once developed any symptoms.

Those other illnesses may not be contagious but they kill a hell of a lot more people than this virus has so far! Not to mention the excess deaths from social isolation, suicides, lack of medical care, etc that will be an addition to all these lock down restrictions

@trappedsincesundaymorn

Sorru for your loss.

This is the thing, plenty of people saying this and also docs speaking out

People on here just want to assume we're being told the truth, I was one of them but things just don't add up with so many things now!

Agree with you @Orange89

I am so sad people are blindly following these rules.

Sadly we lost 4 of my close family in the last 5 months not ONE to Covid.

It's all Bollox, all of it.

@Roowig2020

Covid deaths are exaggerated, I work for the nhs and have colleagues who work on oncology wards who have told me that patients are being listed as Covid deaths if, they had tested positive for Covid at the time of death or anytime in the past, even if they'd died of an unrelated cause like cancer.

Are you saying that these people had their only cause of death as covid and terminal cancer wasn't mentioned on the death certificate?

More than one cause of death can be certified.

My husband had bladder cancer for years and only one functioning kidney. At no time was that life threatening. If he had died during this time and had covid I would expect covid to be on his death certificate as a cause of death.

I really think these stories are outright urban myths or half a story.

[quote alreadytaken]A real life doctor, someone who can be shown to be what he claims, talking about death certificates

www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-nhs-doctors-death-certificates-conspiracy-theories-a9513981.html[/quote]
Thank you. I think that proves my point.

The thing is a positive covid test proves nothing except you've tested positive for covid. It cannot ascertain how bad it it. I cannot ascertain if you even have symptoms and it's not proof by any stretch of the imagination that it killed you.

A lot of people have died with covid. I would be very interested to know how many people it actually killed but there is no way to ever know.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

The thing is a positive covid test proves nothing except you've tested positive for covid. It cannot ascertain how bad it it. I cannot ascertain if you even have symptoms and it's not proof by any stretch of the imagination that it killed you.

A lot of people have died with covid. I would be very interested to know how many people it actually killed but there is no way to ever know.

That is where the excess death figures can be useful. As we know there are people dying every day of various causes but the excess deaths earlier in the year along with the covid deaths show how many more people were dying than at the same times in previous years. There had to be a reason for the increases and most medical and scientific professionals agree that Covid was the cause.

Hmm except now we're going to have excess deaths for loads of other reasons too so I don't think that can be used to reasonably judge either.

I think there are many clinical signs that would indicate a person's body has been ravaged to the point of death by Covid-19, but people who want to believe in bizarre conspiracy fantasies are unlikely to avail themselves of even the most basic facts about the physical effects of this disease. And if one points them out, one is called a doom and gloom monger.

@cbt944

I think there are many clinical signs that would indicate a person's body has been ravaged to the point of death by Covid-19, but people who want to believe in bizarre conspiracy fantasies are unlikely to avail themselves of even the most basic facts about the physical effects of this disease. And if one points them out, one is called a doom and gloom monger.

I'm sure that there are but if there are several causes of death on a death certificate how do we know what killed them? We don't. We know they had a couple of things up with them at the time of death and that's all we know.

I don't believe in any bizzarre conspiracies and I have never claimed to so I am not sure why you're throwing that at me i am it's because you don't have a better defence than I am right and you are mad but it would frankly be stupid not to question this.

Covid is of course real. I am sure it has killed many people. Do I think it's the sole cause or main cause of death for all those counted? Do. I. Fuck.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Hmm except now we're going to have excess deaths for loads of other reasons too so I don't think that can be used to reasonably judge either.

The ONS stats will also show increases in the death rate of suicide, cancer, road traffic accidents, heart attacks etc etc if there are any.

The ONS stats will also show increases in the death rate of suicide, cancer, road traffic accidents, heart attacks etc etc if there are any

If there are any? Wow.

It still doesn't tell us who died of covid and who died with it though does it?

I don't believe in any bizzarre conspiracies and I have never claimed to so I am not sure why you're throwing that at me

Er.... I wasn't. I was trying to calmly respond to your assertion. However, all the people who say With not Of in dramatic tones tend to be overly influenced by conspiracy theories, bless them.

I'm sure that there are but if there are several causes of death on a death certificate how do we know what killed them? We don't.

Well, I would put it to you that hospitals dealing with Covid patients are able to read a lung X-ray, for starters.

Did you read that article by a doctor explaining death certificates and this fervid belief they are being fake that has been linked a couple of times in this thread? That might answer some of your questions.

^faked, not fake

Here's a nice little article about people falling down the rabbit hole, for those afflicted not to bother reading also:

www.independent.ie/irish-news/covid-conspiracies-the-willing-audience-believing-the-confused-and-potentially-harmful-claims-about-the-coronavirus-39279695.html

We are living in really, really worrying times. The number of people who have been sucked into these conspiracy theory cults is terrifying. Their numbers are now so great, they are politically powerful and have swung some recent votes.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Exactly!

I too don't consider my self a conspiracy theorist by any means!! I've done a complete flip reverse on this virus, from. Watching the media every day at the beginning and feeling VERY anxious about it. I laid off the media obsession and now watch it without my blinkers on and see a different story.

I do believe there's a virus and will take procautions as I have a sick dad who no doubt if he died it would be stated he has covid but I dont think things add up!

The chief scientific advisor has stakes in a vaccine production too, bit of a conflict of interest 🤔

I’m assuming road deaths will be lower especially in March/April during lockdown. Didn’t Australia find their flu deaths were much lower in their winter due to lockdown.

DH has a client who runs care homes who luckily has had no COVID deaths. They also have a lower death rate than usual as, I assume due to reduced visitors and increased hygiene measures, they have had fewer cases of norovirus etc. I wonder how a death of an elderly person with chronic health issues is recorded if they contract norovirus. I wonder if that is ‘with’ or ‘from’ norovirus. When my DF was in his last year of terminal cancer if he had contracted either COVID or norovirus I am sure either of those would have finished him off very quickly.

@cbt944

I don't believe in any bizzarre conspiracies and I have never claimed to so I am not sure why you're throwing that at me

Er.... I wasn't. I was trying to calmly respond to your assertion. However, all the people who say With not Of in dramatic tones tend to be overly influenced by conspiracy theories, bless them.

I'm sure that there are but if there are several causes of death on a death certificate how do we know what killed them? We don't.

Well, I would put it to you that hospitals dealing with Covid patients are able to read a lung X-ray, for starters.

Did you read that article by a doctor explaining death certificates and this fervid belief they are being fake that has been linked a couple of times in this thread? That might answer some of your questions.

Calmy respond by trying to belittle me with things I don't even believe in? And bless them? Bless them for what not being so blind as to believe everyone died of covid? Bless you for believing that's the case if we want to patronise people.

Do you think all covid patients had lung x-rays? Hahahaha some didnt even have positive tests.

Mate I've never said they're fake. I don't believe they're paying doctors to put covid on when it's not covid. I'm saying that I'd like to know how many people died of it as opposed to with it. I suggest you try to stop arguing about something you clearly can't even grasp.

[quote Orange89]@TrustTheGeneGenie

Exactly!

I too don't consider my self a conspiracy theorist by any means!! I've done a complete flip reverse on this virus, from. Watching the media every day at the beginning and feeling VERY anxious about it. I laid off the media obsession and now watch it without my blinkers on and see a different story.

I do believe there's a virus and will take procautions as I have a sick dad who no doubt if he died it would be stated he has covid but I dont think things add up!

The chief scientific advisor has stakes in a vaccine production too, bit of a conflict of interest 🤔[/quote]
Your own post is a contradiction of terms!