The doctors are all being paid to say the diagnosis is covid - it doesn't exist

[treebarking]

This is what I heard when I turned on the news just a minute ago...by demonstrators in London today...I'm actually really shocked. Do people really think this?? There were A LOT of people at the demonstration...

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Not much of a tourist industry when half the destinations have entrance, travel, or internal restrictions

No. I mean people visiting new Zealand. As tourists. Obviously.

People in New Zealand will lose their jobs because the tourism industry has shut up shop.

The thing about "temporary" though. Well we don't have an end date. We cannot confirm it will be temporary. We can't confirm this will ever go away.

People in New Zealand will lose their jobs because the tourism industry has shut up shop So open up, let the virus spread, and everybody else loses their job when the offices, pubs, restaurants, bars, music and sporting venues, etc have to close? Schools can't open properly, hospital treatments postponed - but it's ok because people can (in theory) go on holiday?

Unfortunately some in the travel industry will lose their jobs either way. It's a terrible consequence of a pandemic.

All we can do is mitigate the damage and protect as many jobs as possible (offices, pubs, restaurants, shops, sporting and music venues, theatres, etc). Which means dealing with the issue and containing the virus asap.

The sooner we deal with it, the quicker we can get the travel industry back up and running.

@SheepandCow I am very tired and i don't think that I am writing things well.

But what I mean is - I am looking at protests in the UK, as they will affect me, because I will probably move to the UK from Ireland next year

[quote Sarahpaula]@SheepandCow you said "i am not sure how today's mass gathering in London will affect change in Ireland."

Many people move betweeen the UK and Ireland. There is a free travel agreement between the countries. So even after Brexit, anyone who was born in Ireland can go and live in the UK if they want.

We do have a connection between the isles.

I was born in England, and I have lived in England, Scotland and in Ireland, at various times in my life. Most recently, I have lived in Ireland, but I will probably move back over to the UK next year.[/quote]
But you were complaining about Irish rules. Why protest in London about Irish government decisions? The UK government is not responsible for Irish decisions on provision of healthcare or Covid restrictions in Ireland. Wouldn't you ne better off writing to the Irish government?

@SheepandCow they have much of the same rules.

What they were protesting about in the London protest, is what I have said is wrong in Ireland aswell.

Both countries have the same things happening with restrictions

@SheepandCow I am from England orignally , so I am also interested in what they are protesting about there!

Jesus you are talking about Ireland like it is in Eastern Asia. Ireland is your neighbouring countrt, and we are a land border with N.Ireland that is part of the UK . Many things that are happening in the UK because of Coronavirus, are happening the same in Ireland

@SheepandCow you are not listening to me.

I am FROM England - I am interested in the English protests.

I currently live in Ireland - and I am pointing out that many of the same problems that are happening in England, are also happening in Ireland. Irish users use mumsnet too. I was not at the London protests. I am not sure what you are gettig annoyed about

[quote Sarahpaula]@SheepandCow I am very tired and i don't think that I am writing things well.

But what I mean is - I am looking at protests in the UK, as they will affect me, because I will probably move to the UK from Ireland next year[/quote]
@Sarahpaula ok. I understand now. I frequently don't write well either. I tend to waffle!

I don't agree with you about protests right now (someone, I think it was @mrshoho had an excellent idea of virtual protests instead) but I do understand your concerns over access to hospital care and sexual assault support. I want Covid contained asap (partly so we can have normal hospital care) but we also need to do everything we can to ensure access to urgent services during the pandemic.

I think it was a mistake to ban any sort of media in our hospitals during the worst of the outbreak in spring. People need reality brought home to them (whilst blurring patient faces etc to protect identities). Sheltering the public too much has allowed these conspiracy theories to flourish.

There was an article in the Guardian a few days back featuring a medic in Wales who’d taken pictures throughout — it included a makeshift morgue made from scaffolding designed to hold 480 poor souls.

@Sarahpaula I type very slowly. I replied to one of your earlier posts before seeing your latest one. I'm not annoyed with you. I don't agree with any mass gatherings right now, particularly not in densely populated cities, but I understand why you're posting.

[quote Sarahpaula]@SheepandCow I am from England orignally , so I am also interested in what they are protesting about there!

Jesus you are talking about Ireland like it is in Eastern Asia. Ireland is your neighbouring countrt, and we are a land border with N.Ireland that is part of the UK . Many things that are happening in the UK because of Coronavirus, are happening the same in Ireland[/quote]
Just have to correct your misinterpretation.
I said Ireland was a different country because you talked about lack of access to sti treatment in Ireland. Clearly that's not something the UK government has any control over.

Incidentally if Ireland or the UK was in East Asia, we'd have more chance of normal hospital treatments. Much of Asia has done far better than either of us I'm containing Covid.

Some people are believing some very stupid or unempathic things. For some I thinking it’s a defensive coping mechanism, I try my best to remember that and realise we all have different ways of coping.

@reikizen

I don’t think it is so ‘utterly terrifying’! Everyone is going to die from something! Please have some perspective. Look at the official digit lees for how many people die globally from TB, or dementia, or starvation for gods sake. I find it concerning that anyone who disagrees with you should be arrested, it simply means that those people were right to protest. You are all losing your minds

So why should we fail to take any precautions against a virus which will cause many more people to die prematurely? This idea that it's absolutely fine for people to die from a pandemic because people also die from other causes is utterly irrational.

These thick people were gathered all together in a close space, no distancing, no masks, to protest that they dont want lockdown measures

But by doing this protest, they have would of put the lives of thousands and thousands of people at risk

Well done everyone who was there!

Its people like you why this virus will continue for longer, why more people will die with non covid issues, mental health, cancer, etc.

Selfish selfish people

David Icke was there what more needs to be said

I used to think that this virus was very scary and having dad with a serious liver condition made it even more so. I'm still warry of the virus BUT I'm wondering why people are also dying more of other causes due to lockdown restrictions, fewer appointments for serious conditions, lack of check ups to catch new conditions, lack of support for victims, minimal support for all the extra mental health problems, loss of livelihoods, the list goes on. I don't see the goverments going to these great lengths to prevent conditions such as jestt disease (which kills far more deaths than covid has). Things just don't quite add up

Heart disease *

@Ophelia2020

Was Ferguson there? He certainly likes his theories.

[Imperial College epidemiologist Neil] Ferguson was behind the disputed research that sparked the mass culling of eleven million sheep and cattle during the 2001 outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease.
He also predicted that up to 150,000 people could die. There were fewer than 200 deaths. . . .

In 2002, Ferguson predicted that up to 50,000 people would likely die from exposure to BSE (mad cow disease) in beef. In the U.K., there were only 177 deaths from BSE.

In 2005, Ferguson predicted that up to 150 million people could be killed from bird flu. In the end, only 282 people died worldwide from the disease between 2003 and 2009.

In 2009, a government estimate, based on Ferguson’s advice, said a “reasonable worst-case scenario” was that the swine flu would lead to 65,000 British deaths. In the end, swine flu killed 457 people in the U.K.

Last March, Ferguson admitted that his Imperial College model of the COVID-19 disease was based on undocumented, 13-year-old computer code that was intended to be used for a feared influenza pandemic, rather than a coronavirus. Ferguson declined to release his original code so other scientists could check his results. He only released a heavily revised set of code last week, after a six-week delay.

So the real scandal is: Why did anyone ever listen to this guy?

Wow, someone needs to take the name badge and lanyard off this guy and walk him out of the building towards early retirement if this is the case!

@Mintychoc1

As a doctor I am certain that the number of Covid deaths is exaggerated . I have been asked several times by the coroners office to state Covid 19 as cause of death in people who haven’t been tested. I haven’t done it but my colleagues have.

What did they die if then? Aren't you breaking the law doing this? (Or at least the ethical code?)

@allofthetings she said that she has been asked to do it, but hasn't done it

This sounds traumatic but it’s the virus that is putting people at risk, and the healthcare resources. Not any policy or lockdown

Well, I think we are talking about healthcare systems that are completely rundown. I was living in Dublin in the nineties and was shocked at how little leeway there was in the healthcare system even then.

I do think that these weird conspiracy theories are useful to distract people from serious incompetence and a lot of corruption.

A confederacy of dunces... protesting against reality.

This is an interesting read for anyone curious about where some of these alternate-reality 'facts' about Covid-19 are coming from:

www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-09-27/growing-up-brainwashed-gdr-cold-war-conspiracies-disinformation/12695246

My concern is where does covid restrictions end and The Reset begin? There is a clear plan to reset society. It's right there on official sites. They've even got videos ffs. If you can't be arsed that's fine but don't ridicule people with genuine concerns who could be arsed.

Oh well, if they've got videos it must be true! Is it only covid which has set off The Reset? Why wasn't it done at the time of previous pandemics, or were those just practice runs.

Incidentally, do you know how many "end of the world" dates I've lived through? Enough not to give credence to any of this mad hatter stuff.

New Zealand had completely shut its borders, hardly freedom! (not sure if they can travel now or not).

Most people here are comfortable with that - and we are certainly free from all the covid restrictions commented about on MN!

It is the case, as is the guy that gave us the lockdowns and that lead to only “established relationships being ok to not distance” then shagged his lover...

To the PP sheep aren’t intelligent, the only thing they are good at is repeatedly trying to die.

Some of the people there are tinfoil wearing freaks. Same as in BLM some are extremist idiots. And TRAs and feminists and all political protests there are a fringe of fuckwits.

But a lot there are just questioning this utter overturning of civil liberties with laws passed without due diligence.

What I REALLY don’t get is those supporting governmental moves because it will protect the elderly in care homes. Because it helps stop the utter carnage of deaths in those care homes.

Do they not realise they Covid positive patients were released to care homes? That they were and are still being paid to take them. Not all of those protesting don’t believe in the virus, they believe the handling is wrong, and among that is the total destruction and lack of care for our elderly. The government has blood on their hands for the way they have thrown care homes to the wolves.

Does that not give you a moments pause for thought?