People will not comply if the restrictions are only social

[NoSleepInTheHeat]

I really believe that if the restrictions are only social (no more than 6 people, no mixing of households inside,...) people won't comply.

If you are being told to take a packed train or tube to go to work and there mix with your colleagues, will you really not see friends or family at the weekend?

If you see people going to the pub down the road every evening, will you really refrain from inviting a couple over to yours for dinner?
Basically, if you can afford to pay you can socialize, otherwise you can't.

I will do literally anything social distancing-wise to keep the schools open, as will most of the people I know?

What is the alternative do you think?

I completely agree. It's a difficult one because it might actually make good, logical sense to restrict household contact but keep pubs open, say, but psychologically it will have a huge effect on compliance to the extent that I think pubs and restaurants would have to close to show people that this is serious. It's one thing to not see your family if you're also not really allowed to do much else, quite another if it feels like just about all you can't do.

And I don't think the question is what people should do but what they will do. People on MN bemoaning how selfish everyone is doesn't actually help anything, you have to have some sense of what is realistically possible.

I can see what they're trying to do but it was never going to work. They're presumably thinking that pubs and restaurants have an incentive to ensure good ventilation and that everyone follows the rules but actually since there's no enforcement on the establishments by the government there's no enforcement by most establishments on the customers, particularly when you can sell more pints if the place is rammed. The get back on public transport and go back to the office unnecessarily to save Pret was just pure idiocy.

You can agree or disagree with any level of restrictions - however, they all mostly rely on good will and people actually giving a shit - I think sadly large amounts of people don't. The Government does not have the practical ability and resources to enforce any rules, which in any case would require a level on intervention by the state that would not be generally acceptable in the UK.

What is the alternative do you think?
Good question, and I don't have a genius plan!
But from a psychological level you can't expect human beings to be told to stop doing everything that is free but continue to do everything that they need to pay for even if it is high risk.

I would propose for example that we go back to "WFH if you can".
Most people that can already do it, but at least it will send the message that it is not only the free social contact that is being cut.

Or shutdown pubs and restaurants (curfew is a joke).

And I don't think the question is what people should do but what they will do
Exactly!

While schools are open I won’t be bothering, and judging by everyone else in my (apparently ‘locked down’) area, neither will they.

Schools aren’t covid safe, seems daft to follow the rule of six or orders not to go around each other’s houses when our dc are packed in together like sardines all day.

And no, the scales don’t spread it like anyone else because the COVID fairy said so’ doesn’t work on any parent with half a brain, we know only too well how viruses spread in schools.

So while the government say it’s safe for dc to be in a non socially distanced school, don’t expect many to bother with any other measures that seem trivial in comparison to the risk we take sending them in.

Judging from what other mums were saying at pick up earlier they just won’t take it seriously or worry until schools are closed. They figure until the it can’t be that bad.

Scales = dc

I visited my mum today in her house, we were sat in her livingroom each on a different sofa. If I met her in a bar/coffeshop/restaurant I'd be at the same table as her less than 1m apart probably. Its absolutely nonsense if this is allowed but not in her house. So for that reason I will continue to meet her in her house.

@MoaningMurlock

While schools are open I won’t be bothering, and judging by everyone else in my (apparently ‘locked down’) area, neither will they.

Schools aren’t covid safe, seems daft to follow the rule of six or orders not to go around each other’s houses when our dc are packed in together like sardines all day.

And no, the scales don’t spread it like anyone else because the COVID fairy said so’ doesn’t work on any parent with half a brain, we know only too well how viruses spread in schools.

So while the government say it’s safe for dc to be in a non socially distanced school, don’t expect many to bother with any other measures that seem trivial in comparison to the risk we take sending them in.

Judging from what other mums were saying at pick up earlier they just won’t take it seriously or worry until schools are closed. They figure until the it can’t be that bad.

Do you want schools to close then? Because that’s what will be coming if people don’t keep to the rules.

I’m just saying what I’m seeing/hearing.

Until schools are closed people won’t be taking it seriously, they’ll think it must not be as bad as it was last time.

And we all know the biggest risk we are taking is dc in schools, what one dc has they will all usually get. We’ve seen how quickly colds run through dc and then is and everyone at home.

So no, while my dc is packed in with 30 other dc for hours every day I won’t be stopping them going round those other dc’s houses.

The socially responsible thing to do is to curb your activities where you can to reduce potential transmission. I think intelligent people know and accept that. I'm fed up of hearing a vocal minority moan and make excuses.

I don’t think it is a minority at all.

Our area has been ‘locked down’ for some time now, and cases are still only going up. The measures are ineffective and no one is listening.

It will just be ignored, as long as everything is open. The only reason it worked last time was originality, and the fact that everything was shut. No chance this time round.

I feel that schools could stay open in the same way that people who can't work remotely should still go to work.
But to make sure it is not a free for all some things have to close.

I dont really follow the logic tbh. So, because schools are unsafe, I should take my possibly exposed children and expose my friends too? Because I may have picked up the virus at work, I should visit my aging parents?

Whatever .

I can't help but agree MoaningMurlock.
It's pure insanity that a child could possibly be in a bubble at breakfast club, school and then after school club but we can't see our families. I hate to say this but I really can't see schools staying open if we are serious about controlling this outbreak. It isn't that I think kids spread the disease but the fact that adults, some vulnerable work there and the fact that kids can spread it on. There is no social distancing, no sensible bubble system and I bet no social distancing between parents at pick up and drop off.

NC (purely as not commented for years and old name is from "the baby days"!) I completely agree with the poster upthread. So long as pubs and schools are open, few people will abide by "no mixing".

And apparently I don't know how to name-change!

I think people won't comply because:

1. The government doesn't bother to explain their reasoning or acknowledge the impact. It's clearly a risk/reward thing - risk in pubs exists, of course, but keeping pubs open keeps economy open. Ditto work. But god forbid they should actually spell this out.
2. The government has demonstrated that they like to tell us what to do but have zero ability to actually do what they say THEY will do - eg functioning track and trace systems etc etc.
3. Ever since Dominic Cummings went to Durham we've all know that the government's rules are for us little people and other rules exist for the people in power.
4. The government's guidance has regularly been late/pointless/ wrong and as a result lots of people have died who shouldn't (care homes residents in particular), money has been wasted (Nightingale hospital?) and our economy is in deep trouble. It's hard to trust that any of their advice is good.
5. For many many people, struggling with lack of work and money, the ONLY relief comes from seeing family and friends (because expensive trips to the pub are out, for example) and the government's consistent lack of interest in actually helping families, particularly women, means that we are less likely to comply (incidentally, I believe that there was research that showed overall women were more likely to be compliant during lockdown.).

@TheBeatGoesOn why is it insanity that because schools are back and things are spreading we need to do less of other things that might spread it? What happened to cutting back on other things because shutting schools needs to be the last resort?

As long as restaurants, shops, workplaces, schools etc. remain open, I will NOT be observing a rule preventing mixing of households. I am single, WFH, and socialize with ONE friend who also WFH. We only socialize with each other as both of us in a position where our other friends and family are miles away. No kids, no restaurant visits, getting shopping delivered. We are each other’s only human contact and there is NO WAY I am giving that up.

I followed the first rules and was alone for MONTHS and saw nobody. I need conversation to stay mentally healthy and by that I mean in person. Video and phone chat isn’t the same and it makes me feel even more lonely.

Because of all the points I mentioned and because people will say 'The schools are still open, mixing in bubbles of 90, what harm will it do if we meet up with a few friends next week?'

They need to encourage home working (as Scotland and Wales never wavered from because of pressure from party donors) if they're actually serious enough about getting cases down.

Just telling people to be drones in the office for 8 hours a day and to buy their Pret sandwich, buy their Costa coffee and do some shopping on their lunch or after work and then go home and don't see anyone is not a realistic policy.

Keep shops and restaurants open and keep pubs open but with curfews and strict rules, have people working from home where possible (any office work has to make social distancing) AND THEN tell people to limit their social interactions.