People will not comply if the restrictions are only social

[NoSleepInTheHeat]

I really believe that if the restrictions are only social (no more than 6 people, no mixing of households inside,...) people won't comply.

If you are being told to take a packed train or tube to go to work and there mix with your colleagues, will you really not see friends or family at the weekend?

If you see people going to the pub down the road every evening, will you really refrain from inviting a couple over to yours for dinner?
Basically, if you can afford to pay you can socialize, otherwise you can't.

@BeanieB2020 that makes perfect sense. Everybody should be allowed some element of human contact, I just think many of us need to understand that we have "spent" that sending kids to school or going out to work.

Around ours, even in March, when there was a complete lockdown, people were still freely mixing households without a care. Even I knew this and I didn’t leave the house until 7 weeks after lockdown. We are surrounded by houses and the lockdown was being used as party time for all those who suddenly found themselves at home. Don’t think closing schools etc is going to have any effect on keeping people at home.

Beanie I agree with you and I think you should absolutely continue socialising with your friend.

The government is expecting people to make changes that will affect their mental wellbeing and enjoyment of life without giving anything in return. They want the little people to make all the sacrifices while they fail to do the most basic things like invest in education.

It's absolutely insane that I send my two children to two different schools where they each are in a cramped classroom with 29(ish) others - with no money at all to try and do face and space (and not enough sinks to do hands properly). I object to this, it is a risk I do not want to take and yet will face fines if I don't send them and I'm not equipped to homeschool. It is a huge risk to my health and mental wellbeing (and that of my children) which I'm being forced, completely against my will, to accept. When every other country is doing more.

Yet meeting up with family outside, socially distanced, is wrong? It's not. The latter will do nothing to drive covid transmission, sending kids to school with no changes, however.........

@H1978

Around ours, even in March, when there was a complete lockdown, people were still freely mixing households without a care. Even I knew this and I didn’t leave the house until 7 weeks after lockdown. We are surrounded by houses and the lockdown was being used as party time for all those who suddenly found themselves at home. Don’t think closing schools etc is going to have any effect on keeping people at home.

It is the same here, nothing has changed.

What did change, and worked, was most places being shut including schools.

The restrictions from earlier this year worked in that they brought the numbers down, even when a lot of people were still going around each other’s houses. It forced a change in behaviour because things weren’t open.

Right now, with these ‘social’ restrictions, cases are still flying up.

I work in a school and live alone, there’s no way I’ll be limiting my human contact to the children and the one other adult in my bubble, nor will I be forced into a position where I have to pay to be allowed to see others. Not for the sake of a virus that is as harmless to the general population as this one.

We only used to eat out once or twice a year anyway and no way will I do that during Covid.

If a restaurant can stay open I can eat dinner in my in laws garden while they sit in their kitchen.

[quote Porcupineinwaiting]@BeanieB2020 that makes perfect sense. Everybody should be allowed some element of human contact, I just think many of us need to understand that we have "spent" that sending kids to school or going out to work.[/quote]
But why should my quota of human contact be spent at work? Are people not entitled to have social interaction of their choosing? If life consisted of going to work and coming home it would be pretty dire.

*I’m just saying what I’m seeing/hearing.

Until schools are closed people won’t be taking it seriously, they’ll think it must not be as bad as it was last time.

And we all know the biggest risk we are taking is dc in schools, what one dc has they will all usually get. We’ve seen how quickly colds run through dc and then is and everyone at home.

So no, while my dc is packed in with 30 other dc for hours every day I won’t be stopping them going round those other dc’s houses.*

Are you a complete idiot?

Surely you should be doing your upmost to make sure that your dc don't bring Covid into the school in the first place.

Ffs.

But why should my quota of human contact be spent at work? Are people not entitled to have social interaction of their choosing? If life consisted of going to work and coming home it would be pretty dire.

No, currently people are not entitled to have social interaction of their choosing because there is pandemic and social interactions have to be limited. Yes work and home is dire. The whole thing is dire. Why do you think that your tolerance for direness is any more relevant than anyone else’s? Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins.

IloveJKRowling (love the name), I coompletely agree with everything you said re: schools being unsafe. The only reason mine are there is because I can't afford the fines (and we're not at all vulnerable as far as I know)

But from a psychological level you can't expect human beings to be told to stop doing everything that is free but continue to do everything that they need to pay for even if it is high risk.

Precisely. However sound the rationale might be, and however unpalatable the alternatives, people aren't going to accept this. There simply isn't the level of trust or willingness any more.

@Autumnsthemostwonderfultime

*I’m just saying what I’m seeing/hearing.

Until schools are closed people won’t be taking it seriously, they’ll think it must not be as bad as it was last time.

And we all know the biggest risk we are taking is dc in schools, what one dc has they will all usually get. We’ve seen how quickly colds run through dc and then is and everyone at home.

So no, while my dc is packed in with 30 other dc for hours every day I won’t be stopping them going round those other dc’s houses.*

Are you a complete idiot?

Surely you should be doing your upmost to make sure that your dc don't bring Covid into the school in the first place.

Ffs.

Easy to be rude over the internet to someone you’re not face to face with isn’t it? Did it make you feel big?

Explain to me how I’m increasing the risk, when they are seeing the same dc they have been at school all day with anyway?

Is there a magic barrier over schools that stops them getting COVID there but means the second they meet up in a park or garden they get infected immediately.

If the government are insisting they are safe at school then parents will not stop them seeing each other outside of it.

The only reason you are allowed to go restaurants and pubs is because we need them open for the economy and because they are covid secure whereas someone having a house party isn't going to be. I can't believe that because schools are open people are not following the rules the whole point is to limit interactions as much as possible. I don't know why it always surprises me that it has only been since March, not even a year and people cannot follow rules that benefit society. It is promising that we might have a vaccine in March and we have all not been able to do what we can to protect us all, in particular the vulnerable, for such a short period of time.

How does this work then, if a zero hours employee or shift worker who is a lone parent and relies on family to do their job, still needs to go to work or they do not get paid? UC, that takes 5 weeks minimum. And then, got a mortgage? It doesn't cover that. It probably will not cover all of their private rent if they are privately renting. And there are millions of people in this setting.

Pubs and restaurants are not all covid secure though. They're just not. And there's only so covid secure you can get with alcohol around anyway: as senior policing figures pointed out the weekend the pubs reopened, drunk people aren't very good at social distancing.

I fully accept that some are, and that they're all supposed to have provisions in place. But they are not necessarily covid secure.

No it doesn't make me feel big, it makes me feel pretty shit. If the government do close schools again, it will be catastrophic for so many children's education and wellbeing.

Schools would be safe if parents had half a brain and did their absolute best to limit interactions outside of school, and made sure that their child doesn't bring Covid into school.

Why do you think that your tolerance for direness is any more relevant than anyone else’s?

People’s ability to tolerate lockdown without any detrimental effect varies greatly and it does deserve consideration. It is unreasonable to ask people to do something they find intolerable when there is less than nothing in it for them. And like it if not, lots of us are not worried about the risk of the virus.

Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins.

Right back at you. I realise your post wasn’t directed at me btw, but I could say exactly the same back to you there.

’because it’s a pandemic’ doesn’t cut it anymore considering that the virus would be a mild illness, if that, for the vast majority of us.

@MoaningMurlock

While schools are open I won’t be bothering, and judging by everyone else in my (apparently ‘locked down’) area, neither will they.

Schools aren’t covid safe, seems daft to follow the rule of six or orders not to go around each other’s houses when our dc are packed in together like sardines all day.

And no, the scales don’t spread it like anyone else because the COVID fairy said so’ doesn’t work on any parent with half a brain, we know only too well how viruses spread in schools.

So while the government say it’s safe for dc to be in a non socially distanced school, don’t expect many to bother with any other measures that seem trivial in comparison to the risk we take sending them in.

Judging from what other mums were saying at pick up earlier they just won’t take it seriously or worry until schools are closed. They figure until the it can’t be that bad.

Well then unfortunately people shouldn't be surprised when the schools get shut as a result, which screws everyone over (not least the children).

Adults just can't have it both ways - either you want schools open so children can have some sort of normality and as a result have to accept that there is a need restrict other parts of life for the time being, or everyone just does whatever the fuck the feel like now and wait until it gets so bad that we go back into lockdown and everyone is back homeschooling

I think given these restrictions are effectively for the long haul allowing some socialising eg outside only, max 6 would be more sensible as people could work round to see people they really do need to see. Banning it completely indefinitely does some to be a recipe for non compliance given that a law that I cannot see my mum and no idea when I will be allowed to does feel like a law I would break - even general law abiding citizens have a breaking point when it comes down to the people they love and remember we already did go five months without seeing them earlier in the year.

If they allow some “safe” socialising then they are more likely to get compliance than if they ban it completely.

@BeanieB2020

As long as restaurants, shops, workplaces, schools etc. remain open, I will NOT be observing a rule preventing mixing of households. I am single, WFH, and socialize with ONE friend who also WFH. We only socialize with each other as both of us in a position where our other friends and family are miles away. No kids, no restaurant visits, getting shopping delivered. We are each other’s only human contact and there is NO WAY I am giving that up.

I followed the first rules and was alone for MONTHS and saw nobody. I need conversation to stay mentally healthy and by that I mean in person. Video and phone chat isn’t the same and it makes me feel even more lonely.

As long as one of you is the only adult in your household you can form a support bubble with each other, and would be able to continue to see each other even if households mixing were banned.

While schools are open I won’t be bothering, and judging by everyone else in my (apparently ‘locked down’) area, neither will they.

Well, that's just silly. It should be the alternative - while my kids are going into a germy school every day, I'm being extra careful about meeting others, both for the sake of other people and so my own DCs don't catch it and bring it into the classroom

But really, some people will look for whatever excuse to be comfortable that the rules don't apply to them.

Dd spends most of the day in class with her friends and every break with them. If they walk home together the friends can’t come in our house. She is also not allowed to mix with her brother at school and they couldn’t have a joint photo - only chance as they will only be at the same school for 1 year
We are sticking to the rules but they make no practical sense.

I complied the first time round. I'm still hardly seeing anyone (just had a baby so being careful) other than my mum and grandad, both single people who do virtually no socialising and work alone, and a couple of low risk friends. I personally don't want to take the risk of going out to meet friends in coffee shops when I can meet them in open spaces or my home/garden. This is literally my only pleasure in life at the moment and I resent having that taken away from me when pubs and bars are still open. I feel like there's nothing left for people who either don't like socialising out/can't afford to or who shouldn't because they're vulnerable.

moaningmurlock I think you're totally right. I'm not a "school gate chatterer" these days (have to dash home for work)" but it's rife at my daughter's school, along with arranged meet-ups (I politely turn down). My FB feed is chokka with parties / soft play / nights out etc. This is markedly different from lockdown when most people seemed to be sticking to their own homes (initially at least). I've gone past the point of blaming them tbh and can see the logic of "well they're in school so it makes no difference" although I don't make those choices myself

The only reason you are allowed to go restaurants and pubs is because we need them open for the economy
we need AN economy but ultimately it will need to shift towards covid safe activities