People will not comply if the restrictions are only social

[NoSleepInTheHeat]

I really believe that if the restrictions are only social (no more than 6 people, no mixing of households inside,...) people won't comply.

If you are being told to take a packed train or tube to go to work and there mix with your colleagues, will you really not see friends or family at the weekend?

If you see people going to the pub down the road every evening, will you really refrain from inviting a couple over to yours for dinner?
Basically, if you can afford to pay you can socialize, otherwise you can't.

Dear me, we are screwed aren’t we? The simple and correct answer to all of these objections is ‘then we’ll continue to live with restrictions for longer’ There is a risk budget, the options taken are obviously going to be aimed at keeping the economy moving and schools open. That means pubs, coffee houses, shops will stay open with the intention of making them ‘COVID secure’ but restrictions will be placed on other areas of life.

@SqidgeBum I am about to give birth to my second DD. I have a 20 month old. If I dont see people indoors throughout winter, I will speak to absolutely NOBODY all day, every day, for weeks and weeks

Why? You mention your DH is home every day. A large percentage of new mothers in Scandinavia have their very young babies sleeping outside every day in sub-zero temperatures. Not saying you need to go to that extreme, but it's very unclear why you couldn't go out for a walk with a friend with a toddler and a baby in a sling or wrapped up warm in a buggy. Unless it's pouring with rain, you can even sit down on a park bench to breastfeed (or bottle feed) after the first few weeks, if you have warm wrappings and a book to read to the toddler. Buy your toddler and even you some waterproof trouser and jacket suits from Didrikson, get a baby wearing coat and comfortable sling and go wild.

Having had 3 winter babies and a very outdoor life, I think your drama here is way overstated. Of course it will be lovely if your mum can visit and if there's a covid safe way for her, in your position I'd probably go for it too even if it skirts the rules. But as for the rest, it's totally possible to do it outside.

I totally agree, especially since they put children at the bottom of the list for testing. Ds came home from school today & said that he has to wear a mask at school in corridors or communal spaces, but in lessons he has to sit shoulder to shoulder with someone else for up to 3 hours, it doesn't make sense. The pubs closing at 10.00pm just means everyone goes out earlier to get their drinking hours in, the pubs round here were rammed all weekend, people still rolled home at midnight, so where had they been since 10.00pm? The only thing that will work is going back to as many as possible wfh, pubs & cafes closing & going back to lockdown.

That means pubs, coffee houses, shops will stay open with the intention of making them ‘COVID secure’ but restrictions will be placed on other areas of life

Such as?
In the early days of CV, it was shown that work, mass gatherings and schools spread CV the most.

With winter approaching, it will not be possible to make social situations Covid Secure, whatever that means? i don't think Covid read that particular rule book, esp where alcohol is involved.

Also, many of the people not complying with the (ever-changing) rules have any stake in the schools situation, e.g. those with grown-up children / no children / students. Unless those people change their behaviour then the schools will close anyway.

I disagree but I can only speak from my observations of compliance locally. There are few children on the street I live on but nearly everyone has taken the various restrictions seriously. I live alone and work from home and I have complied throughout. Not because I necessarily agree with all the decisions made but I simply don't think I'm special or important enough to ignore the restrictions when doing so has the potential to adversely affect others. I don't feel it's medal worthy behaviour, I'm just accepting this is a shit situation and the only way past it is through it.

If it’s safe to sit with my Dad in the pub then it’s safe to sit the exact same distance from him in his house. I won’t be forced to pay just so I can see people. I don’t want to go to the pub and spend - I don’t have any money and I haven’t been to a pub for about five years. I want to go round to my Dad’s house, for free.

It’s not about saying something is safer than something else it’s about reducing the amount of contact we have with others
Fine. I won’t go to pubs or restaurants - I’ll see my Dad and nothing else. That will reduce my contact with others. But I’m not allowed a free choice of what I do. The government has said I can go to the pub but not see my Dad. That’s not fair of them to make my choice for me - I want it the other way around.

OP you've hit the nail on the head.
People are pissed off they are being forced into non social distancing situations, schools, public transport etc yet being told they cant see the parents on the weekend unless they are in a pub. Throw in low wages and darker nights and its just a recipe for disaster.

@MoaningMurlock

While schools are open I won’t be bothering, and judging by everyone else in my (apparently ‘locked down’) area, neither will they.

Schools aren’t covid safe, seems daft to follow the rule of six or orders not to go around each other’s houses when our dc are packed in together like sardines all day.

And no, the scales don’t spread it like anyone else because the COVID fairy said so’ doesn’t work on any parent with half a brain, we know only too well how viruses spread in schools.

So while the government say it’s safe for dc to be in a non socially distanced school, don’t expect many to bother with any other measures that seem trivial in comparison to the risk we take sending them in.

Judging from what other mums were saying at pick up earlier they just won’t take it seriously or worry until schools are closed. They figure until the it can’t be that bad.

I cant help but feel a bit like this too. There I am, putting myself at risk as a teacher. No one giving an honest shit about that and for my children at risk of brining it home or to relatives. I will of course comply but it makes me rage inside.

@Iwantacookie

OP you've hit the nail on the head. People are pissed off they are being forced into non social distancing situations, schools, public transport etc yet being told they cant see the parents on the weekend unless they are in a pub. Throw in low wages and darker nights and its just a recipe for disaster.

Totally. Business is all that seems to matter.

The parents of children are not taking it seriously here. I see groups of children out from more than two households [ we have local restrictions] I also see visitors visiting. In the space of a couple of days, I have seen two families do this!

Non parents aren’t taking it seriously either. Why should they? It’s not their problem if schools close, it doesn’t affect them. They want to go out boozing and don’t see why they should stop because of someone else’s kids.

Well when the economy is fucked and the schools are closed and they still can't see their family, maybe people will understand why the Government tried to keep businesses and schools open.

@BillywilliamV *
I will do literally anything social distancing-wise to keep the schools open, as will most of the people I know?
Schools need to close for all but vulnerable , you cannot control Covid19 and keep schools open.

[quote AldiAisleofCrap]**@BillywilliamV*
I will do literally anything social distancing-wise to keep the schools open, as will most of the people I know?
Schools need to close for all but vulnerable , you cannot control Covid19 and keep schools open.[/quote]
I tend to agree.
What about the vunerable children? Just throw them under a bus?
Vunerable teachers, families?
I just cannot see how the numbers can go down with schools open.

@Ranunculi Im child free by choice but i dont drink. Ive never been drunk. But speaking of what you said People with no children have spent decades...............

a. being told they are entitled to less benefits when unemloyed because they dont have kids.
b. being told they are not entitled to decent housing because they dont have kids (ive actually heard people say that its terrible how families are having to live in shipping containers but its ok for single people and those without children)
c. People without kids being told/made to work the shitty shifts over Christmas, e,g, Christmas Eve, Boxing Day, etc, There are threads about it on here going back years.

Im NOT saying all parents are like this...................but it does happen a lot. So some of those without children may well say No. Enough. A step too far.

What makes it worse is, grandparents can now look after children.
Thats great but hold on, what if they are 65 plus?
My MIL usually picks up my dd from school. What if its in the school and she passes it on to her, me, my dh, then i pass it on to people in my work and my children pass it to other children in the high school who go home and pass it on to people in their family.

Judging for what I read here, noone is or will follow any rule!

I do want the WFH is you can to return in lockdown areas.

People are pissed off they are being forced into non social distancing situations, schools, public transport etc yet being told they cant see the parents on the weekend unless they are in a pub.

Yes. Well put.

I'm pissed off I'm being forced against my express wishes to accept far more risk of bereaving or harming my children than I've been willing to take since all this started.

I don't consent to schools going back as the germ factories they so clearly are. With nothing like the safety measures in place in ANY other workplace.

I face the impossible choice of denying my children education (no home options provided) or risking their life chances being irrevocably destroyed and mental health shattered if we, or one of their beloved teachers, catch it and have it badly. They are forcing us to gamble when it comes to our kids wellbeing.

Gamble being out of school won't put them behind too much and they'll be able to catch up - at least they'll have healthy parents. Gamble that you won't be the parent to catch it and get very ill/ get long covid. They're sitting in a cramped indoor environment- PERFECT for covid - 6 hours a day - so this will happen. It's a question of how many and who. Gamble that it won't be THEIR teacher - who they love - that is affected.

There's a big difference between knowing you've done your absolute best, followed the science, and bad things happening anyway, and knowing that you weren't given the money to even try a tiny bit to reduce risk, or take the same actions as you would for 5 mins in a shop.

It's not only not a free choice, it's morally bankrupt.

The PP who said they'd rather see their Dad at home than in a pub - the home situation is lower risk. Because there won't be a load of random strangers there. So actually, staying at home with your Dad would actually reduce covid risk for everyone.

I'd happily give up going out altogether if my kids could be in covid safe schools (small class sizes, SD, when cases get too high, masks too)

Neveradullmoment99 - if you don't feel its safe for grandparents to pick up your kids because they are at particular risk then you're free to make alternative arrangements. Personally I am glad they have made that exception. Parents need to work, the economy needs to somehow stay afloat. Grandparents doing childcare supports that. No one is being forced to do it.

Absolutely right, OP.

What kind of dimwitted government thinks people will accept that they have to go and work in an office (for no reason at all if they can WFH) but they can't see small groups of friends?

They don't get to have it both ways. It's either safe to mix or it isn't. Fuck your Covid secure environment bullshit. People share toilets in group situations. And doors and aircon and public transport and etc.

FUCK. OFF.

I'm still shielding pretty much. I've seen my parents at a distance and that's it really. Since March. It's shit, I work at home and then home alone in the evenings so am going months without a face to face conversation. But not much I can do about it at the minute

@Juststopswimming

Neveradullmoment99 - if you don't feel its safe for grandparents to pick up your kids because they are at particular risk then you're free to make alternative arrangements. Personally I am glad they have made that exception. Parents need to work, the economy needs to somehow stay afloat. Grandparents doing childcare supports that. No one is being forced to do it.

That is just not true. Some people don't have alternatives. Im very fortunate. I do. Others don't and will be forced to use grandparents as they have noone else.

@swabthenose

Absolutely right, OP.

What kind of dimwitted government thinks people will accept that they have to go and work in an office (for no reason at all if they can WFH) but they can't see small groups of friends?

They don't get to have it both ways. It's either safe to mix or it isn't. Fuck your Covid secure environment bullshit. People share toilets in group situations. And doors and aircon and public transport and etc.

FUCK. OFF.

Totally!

Isn’t it all just ridiculous! It’s all profit before people. I keep my bubble close, haven’t been at a bar since March and in the same local restaurant twice in the same period, mainly due to the eat out to help out bargain. Which coincidentally ended just before schools went back, maybe it should have ended 14 days before school returns, just to be on the safe side. Local school has had a few tests, none positive. We in my extended family are all careful but now it seems like we will have to go up a local restaurant to get together? I don’t think so.

@H1978

I really feel for the schools, it’s an never ending task for them.

Dd1 is doing a teacher training course at school and she was mentioning today today how another girl on the same course came into school although she was waiting on a COVID test result 😳 . What followed was ridiculous, the teachers had to change into appropriate clothing and escort her out of the building. In addition, because she had been in several classes already, it all needed to be sanitised. You’d think an 18 year older would have more sense and I can’t even use words to describe what the hell her parents were thinking allowing her to come to school. How much can schools control stupidity like this?

We’re in a hotspot area and dd3s school has enforced face masks for all parents from tomorrow when dropping and picking kids up.

It’s terrifying that someone so stupid may one day be responsible for educating our children.