People will not comply if the restrictions are only social

[NoSleepInTheHeat]

I really believe that if the restrictions are only social (no more than 6 people, no mixing of households inside,...) people won't comply.

If you are being told to take a packed train or tube to go to work and there mix with your colleagues, will you really not see friends or family at the weekend?

If you see people going to the pub down the road every evening, will you really refrain from inviting a couple over to yours for dinner?
Basically, if you can afford to pay you can socialize, otherwise you can't.

It may end up being what is enforceable. Curfew is probably easier to enforce than what what people do in their homes for example.

Clearly, we can't trust everyone to follow the rules, whatever they are.

Also, many of the people not complying with the (ever-changing) rules have any stake in the schools situation, e.g. those with grown-up children / no children / students. Unless those people change their behaviour then the schools will close anyway.

I am about to give birth to my second DD. I have a 20 month old. If I dont see people indoors throughout winter, I will speak to absolutely NOBODY all day, every day, for weeks and weeks. I have no work to go to where I will see other humans. I need my mother to come over to help me after the birth when DH goes back to work. I cannot go to the pub or a restaurant easily to meet people. I cannot commit to exercise classes in the evening as DH works shifts. I have no family around normally as they live abroad, so I have 2 friends I see every week. They are the only reason I am sane. I am not exaggerating when I say I will definitely have a completely breakdown if i have to sit in my house all week looking after 2 very small children, alone.

I will not be following these rules if they say 'dont see anyone in your house'. I will have my mom fly over to help. I will see my 2 friends in my sitting room if we cannot go to the park because its raining. Call me selfish. I honestly have no other choice if I want to be a functioning and mentally healthy parent to two kids. I cannot be that lonely. I cannot push myself to the point of a complete breakdown when I have 2 kids that rely on me. I need to speak to someone.

Well I hope everyone on the school gates that are going to carry on as normal won't be moaning if the schools close, and they won't be on here saying I can't cope with home schooling. Idiots!

I know someone in a northern "locked down" area who has continued to meet up with family. They don't see why they shouldn't when pubs are still open in their area.

And I see the point, surely the cost of poor MH on the NHS will out weigh the revenue from pubs that have been struggling for years.

@Heffalooomia

The only reason you are allowed to go restaurants and pubs is because we need them open for the economy we need AN economy but ultimately it will need to shift towards covid safe activities

Such as?

*Well then unfortunately people shouldn't be surprised when the schools get shut as a result, which screws everyone over (not least the children).

Adults just can't have it both ways - either you want schools open so children can have some sort of normality and as a result have to accept that there is a need restrict other parts of life for the time being, or everyone just does whatever the fuck the feel like now and wait until it gets so bad that we go back into lockdown and everyone is back homeschooling*

Thank god some people have got sense.

@MoaningMurlock

I don’t think it is a minority at all.

Our area has been ‘locked down’ for some time now, and cases are still only going up. The measures are ineffective and no one is listening.

They are ineffective because there are no sanctions for those who don't comply

Until the government develop some teeth around this we won't be able to get through to the group's we know have no intention of complying but no one will stand up to

If you live in an area with growing incidence of the virus, then I agree simply banning households from mixing, whilst schools, pubs etc are all open will do nothing. Of course most people want schools to stay open however unless they are the only thing that stays open, they are just a massive conduit for transmission between families.

I wonder if some schools will be brought into Tier 2, so a form of blended learning, in areas of local lockdown

I work in a school. There is no "magic barrier" protecting them. The children are packed together in the classroom and the adults are no more than half a metre away from a child at any one time, usually much closer. Out of the "hands, face, space" - we do hands, which, to be fair, we're pretty good at.

The only realistic protection any of us have in the classroom is if no one in our "bubble" has Covid. The best chance of that is if cases are low in the community. That means everyone doing their level best to stop the spread by limiting their social interaction as much as possible outside of school.

We are in an area of local lockdown. Our head basically told us that not only is it our moral duty to comply with all the Covid legislation but also to limit our social activities within what's still allowed. (In other words - don't go down the pub.)

However, if the parents are going to think like some of you on here that if schools are open then they can do what they like then we are well and truly f*cked.

They are ineffective because there are no sanctions for those who don't comply

Until the government develop some teeth around this we won't be able to get through to the group's we know have no intention of complying but no one will stand up to

I'm not sure how people imagine that widespread non-compliance is going to be stood up to. There simply aren't enough police and army to make people observe rules if they don't want to.

Close the pubs and restaurants in October while there’s still furlough, and move to part time school (I refuse to call it blended learning)?

They were optimistic about a vaccine, by the end of the year for the small highest priority groups and the first half of next year for others. So we’ve got to muddle along somehow until then.

Khara we don't all think like that.

As a parent I am taking my personal responsibility to not bring Covid into the school very seriously.

If ONE child brings Covid in you take a whole class or even year group down. So for god sake think about what else you're doing outside of school.

The attitude of schools are open so I'll do what I like astounds me.

Like you say, the best way to make schools safe is to keep community transmission low.

@Khara

I work in a school. There is no "magic barrier" protecting them. The children are packed together in the classroom and the adults are no more than half a metre away from a child at any one time, usually much closer. Out of the "hands, face, space" - we do hands, which, to be fair, we're pretty good at.

The only realistic protection any of us have in the classroom is if no one in our "bubble" has Covid. The best chance of that is if cases are low in the community. That means everyone doing their level best to stop the spread by limiting their social interaction as much as possible outside of school.

We are in an area of local lockdown. Our head basically told us that not only is it our moral duty to comply with all the Covid legislation but also to limit our social activities within what's still allowed. (In other words - don't go down the pub.)

However, if the parents are going to think like some of you on here that if schools are open then they can do what they like then we are well and truly f*cked.

Absolutely. We should be doing what ever it takes to keep the community rates low so children can get an education. I can’t understand any other logic !

@Asilisa76 some people must just be stupid

either you want schools open so children can have some sort of normality and as a result have to accept that there is a need restrict other parts of life for the time being

But schools aren't open as normal - it's so far from 'normality' as to be a joke.

I want the government, instead of funnelling millions into their mates pockets for stuff that doesn't work, invest millions in schools so they can be safer.

I don't do anything unsafe. But scientifically, meeting 7 other people with more than 2m social distancing in the park is massively safer than the way kids are in schools (in this country, literally every other country in the developed world is doing more for kids).

I understand the science and I will not do unsafe things for the teachers (who are being treated like shit by the government) and for the schools, but I won't follow some random government rule either. Not when the government is forcing me, and my kids teachers, to take on a ridiculously high risk of being a human sacrifice just so that they don't have to expend even a small amount of money (that they'd rather go to Dido or Deloitte) on crowded, cramped, underfunded schools.

Until the government develop some teeth around this we won't be able to get through to the group's we know have no intention of complying but no one will stand up to

I've been absolutely astonished by how high most people's tolerance has been for repressive measures so far - I would never have predicted that they'd have been accepted so passively - but presumably at some point there will be a limit to how much people will accept. Just erecting a police state isn't really a viable option.

Rarely meet people in their homes anyway. Will still be using parent for childcare.

@OverTheRubicon

While schools are open I won’t be bothering, and judging by everyone else in my (apparently ‘locked down’) area, neither will they.

Well, that's just silly. It should be the alternative - while my kids are going into a germy school every day, I'm being extra careful about meeting others, both for the sake of other people and so my own DCs don't catch it and bring it into the classroom

But really, some people will look for whatever excuse to be comfortable that the rules don't apply to them.

Glad its not just me that looks at it that way. We are doing nothing apart from going to school and DP going to work to avoid raising the risk of catching or spreading covid any further

@MoaningMurlock

I’m just saying what I’m seeing/hearing.

Until schools are closed people won’t be taking it seriously, they’ll think it must not be as bad as it was last time.

And we all know the biggest risk we are taking is dc in schools, what one dc has they will all usually get. We’ve seen how quickly colds run through dc and then is and everyone at home.

So no, while my dc is packed in with 30 other dc for hours every day I won’t be stopping them going round those other dc’s houses.

I don't follow your logic...surely if you feel the school environment is unsafe but essential enough to keep sending your children, the last thing you'd want to do is exposure them and others further to any bugs they may have. You sound a bit like you want to spite someone but the only people who will suffer are you, your children and those in your social circle.

All those people who ignore the social distancing requirements might take it a bit more seriously if they lose their jobs as a result do the beating the economy is taking and get told there is no more money left for benefits.

That’s why it’s important we keep the economy going as much as possible. Otherwise we’ll all be fucked in 6 months time.

@Khara

I work in a school. There is no "magic barrier" protecting them. The children are packed together in the classroom and the adults are no more than half a metre away from a child at any one time, usually much closer. Out of the "hands, face, space" - we do hands, which, to be fair, we're pretty good at.

The only realistic protection any of us have in the classroom is if no one in our "bubble" has Covid. The best chance of that is if cases are low in the community. That means everyone doing their level best to stop the spread by limiting their social interaction as much as possible outside of school.

We are in an area of local lockdown. Our head basically told us that not only is it our moral duty to comply with all the Covid legislation but also to limit our social activities within what's still allowed. (In other words - don't go down the pub.)

However, if the parents are going to think like some of you on here that if schools are open then they can do what they like then we are well and truly f*cked.

Absolutely. Great post.

We're not all arseholes. I know that my child is a disease vector so we are not doing anything outside of school and work bar home and walks. School is too important at the moment to muck it up by spitefully declaring that socialising is fine because they see the same children at school 🙄 (different environment, different adults, different touch surfaces, different levels of cleaning). I feel like some parents on here almost want schools to close again just to prove some point.

Not at all.

I’d be happy to either be able to keep them off over the winter and home school without losing their place or getting fined.

I’d be equally happy if the government pulled its finger out of its arse and spent the money needed for schools to actually be safe for staff and students. Not just chucking them all in and hoping for the best.

So right now I’m not inclined to listen to the governments daft and arbitrary ‘rules’. We are already ‘not safe’, I don’t see why my son playing football with his friend in a garden while I have a coffee with his mum is any less safe then them being crammed into a poorly ventilated classroom all day with 28 other dc.

I’m getting a lot of flack for saying this but it’s the truth, and I can see in real life that others feel the same.

@ineedaholidaynow

Well I hope everyone on the school gates that are going to carry on as normal won't be moaning if the schools close, and they won't be on here saying I can't cope with home schooling. Idiots!

Yes, quite.

And to all those parents saying schools are the least safe place so whilst they remain open they're just going to crack on, it’s parents like you who are making schools so unsafe in the first place.