Oh god. Back to having a walk then???

[ssd]

As the highlight of the day.

AKA another lockdown looms....

We can all sleep soundly tonight feeling heartened that you are pleased that little kids have been denied this small once a year pleasure.

Damn right.

@ineedaholidaynow

Maybe we will be given scenarios so if hospital admissions are at a certain level then no mixing of households and a curfew, but if the levels go up to this x amount, then a next set of restrictions will be brought in and so on. And they will explain it carefully and precisely with no bluster and waffle.

Perhaps they couid call it 5 Tests? Or give it pretty colours like the Nando's scale?

@BehindtheBump

Wow some of the comments here are disgusting. What selfish, entitled people are coming out of the woodwork.

Restrictions and lockdown are hard but so is turning away dying people from hospitals

I think the large issue is that people on both sides are lacking empathy. Those more concerned with the medically vulnerable are seething at the lack of empathy from those who are not and are suggesting just letting it burn through the populace, while having a total lack of concern themselves for those at the brink of destitution or already living in poverty, for whom an additional lockdown would spell bankruptcy. Lots of those own their own small businesses. What happens in the event of economic disaster? Well, suicide rates shoot up, for a start. Families are made homeless, they start having to choose between heating and eating through the winter, or between feeding themselves or their children... Lots of people on here seem to be living in the 'lockdown is a tad inconvenient because I have to work from home' bubble, without considering those on the breadline.

And I say this as someone who hasn't left the house apart from to go for a walk since March and for whom lockdown was not financially worrisome. Ultimately this isn't just about quality of life vs quantity of life. This is a choice between the clinically vulnerable and the socioeconomically vulnerable. It's not a simple call, and people will always have their personal biases.

I don't think this is the case at all. I, and lots of others, who are on the side of taking the virus very seriously have often spoken about the absolute need to put in protections for people suffering financially. I talk about it all the time. This idea of people being middle class and having no idea of the impact on ordinary, hard working people in the private sector is nonsense. I live on a council estate, my husband works in a food factory. I'm very aware and sympathetic of people who have to make tough choices between sending their children to school with symptoms or getting paid. I don't see many people being smug about the mild inconveniences of lockdown at all, only people projecting those opinions onto some mythical, arrogant, privileged group. You yourself say that you support following distancing measures, but have a lot of sympathy and concern for those on the breadline. I think yours is a very common position, concern for both types of vulnerability.

I don't see symmetrical concern from the other side. I see people complain about the mental health implications of lockdown, but none about the mental health effects on NHS workers, or the PTSD seen in COVID sufferers who have been fighting for oxygen. I see worry about working parents, but no concern for the teachers who have to work with no protection whatsoever. I will continue to have sympathy for people struggling with all aspects of this pandemic, but it would be nice to see the same from the AD crowd.

At the end of the day, it doesn't have to be a choice between protecting one group over another. It's down to our government to protect both.

The countries which have reduced and controlled transmission most (mainly in Asia) have very high levels of mask wearing (pretty much universal, indoors and out) and very high levels of compliance with other regulations.

Well yes, but I imagine they've not had huge social media campaigns aimed at encouraging people not to judge those not wearing a mask in case they have a medical condition. And accusing shopworkers etc of disability discrimination if they challenge the maskless. The more lout-ish of the population were always going to exploit that loophole. Like it or not there are large swathes of our society who will only do as they're told if there is a likely consequence for not doing so.

@onedayinthefuture

@TheMurk

They need to break us properly through the winter so that come the new year they can offer a chink of light and - oh look, hope in a syringe!

It’s so blatant.

It's all so suspicious.

Oh ffs!

You know what I am sick and tired of?

The entitled selfish childish idiots who think rules don't apply to them and who are the only reason for stricter restrictions, and a possible lockdown.

And the idiots who go on about "kids go to school" so I am free of rules. Where did you ever see that schools are magical bubbles? Nowhere. They are just trying to keep them opened as one of the top priorities.

After idiots start getting shocked with a few heavy fines (Yes, "they" can check what you are doing and fine you for not following rules, European countries have shown how easy that is), we might get somewhere.

I am sick and tired of putting my life on hold because of these selfish idiots.

I agree @SantaClaritaDiet

@BehindtheBump you have absolutely hit the nail on the head. That's what I've been trying to say for weeks but I don't have the eloquence. Perfectly put.

@ineedaholidaynow

Maybe we will be given scenarios so if hospital admissions are at a certain level then no mixing of households and a curfew, but if the levels go up to this x amount, then a next set of restrictions will be brought in and so on. And they will explain it carefully and precisely with no bluster and waffle.

I hope so. And then I hope that everyone is extremely careful about SD / masks. I live in rural Northumberland. Cases are low here. But lots of visitors who are not bothering with SD / masks - rammed over summer. Yet because cases are high in Sunderland, parts of Newcastle, we are all on local lockdown. I am complying of course. I am a single parent to two kids with ASD and they need me fit and well and to stay alive. Nor do I want to inadvertently infect some random stranger.

What frightens me most is the inequalities that are being ramped up by this. I have good friends who both work high up in the neighbouring county's LA. They are both working from home on good salaries (locally, anyway) and have private health insurance via work. So, their minor surgery is going ahead, they are saving money on commuting, they are not in lockdown (tho cases are at sim level). Their benefits system is different (Scotland) / access to hospital etc.
I wish I was in their position, but there are people that would swap places with me perhaps too. What IS unforgivable is the avoidable mess re education and care homes which we seem to be repeating?

And that is before we hit ourselves over the head with the chaos of a disorganized Brexit too.

Thank you @alwayslosing. I didn't have private insurance so you may well be right there. I tried several providers, some said they are not taking on new patients and others said they weren't running eye surgery because of the close proximity to the face. A couple also mentioned that they were under temporary NHS contracts, so I'd imagine private patients have been affected by that in some cases. I think the impact of covid on healthcare is the scariest thing, it's like the safety net has gone.

I really don’t understand those who say they wouldn’t adhere to new rules about not mixing households. Do you not care at all about the welfare of the people you’re mixing with? I mean, I can just about get my head round the fact that some people aren’t motivated by doing what is best for wider society, but I can’t understand being willing to take even the slightest risk with those that I care about.

If the no mixing rule comes in here I will adhere to it,it’s not fun but it’s better than having my conscious worrying me forever if I carried on mixing and then those people became seriously ill.

they are influenced heavily in this (as in any politics) by very rich people with a vested interest (and possibly shares in Perspex and hand gel)
Well, I've read it all now. It's all a conspiracy concocted by those master criminals and global influencers ... ...hand gel manufacturers
If this was a global conspiracy, I'd appreciate if they sent all the conspiracy theorists, anti-maskers, anti-social distancing peeps, etc, to an island where they can roam freely and the rest of us with a sense of collective responsibility and adherence to the science, could possibly get out of lockdown next year. That would be lovely.

@PollyPelargonium52

Doesn't anybody watch the news on here? No second lockdown just suggestion of no household mixing and curfew from 10 pm

@PollyPelargonium52

Yes i do.

Whats been said is no second lockdown at this point.

But Matt Hancock has refused to rule out a second lockdown, and the newspapers have all said that a second lockdown around October half term is still very much on the table if the situation doesn't improve and we dont see high enough levels of compliance.

Perhaps youd like to watch the news / read the newspapers more carefully before having a go at everyone else for not watching the news.

@ineedaholidaynow

Maybe we will be given scenarios so if hospital admissions are at a certain level then no mixing of households and a curfew, but if the levels go up to this x amount, then a next set of restrictions will be brought in and so on. And they will explain it carefully and precisely with no bluster and waffle.
I agree this is the most likely. Chris Whitty and Sir Patrick Valance will calmy lay out the science and the data and set out the criteria for various potential restrictions coming into place. They will hopefully state the reasons why we can mix outside with others but not indoors in a way that the majority can understand.

I think this will be better delivered by them but I still think too many people don't even watch these things. They are just happy to kick off about any restrictions that limit their own lives.

I don't understand how the taxpayers will afford another big lockdown.

1 total case in my area in the entire week 8-14 September. Why do we need lockdown here?

My advice to anyone struggling to find light in this dark tunnel is to learn to accept what is happening is beyond your control. Believe me, once you start to accept it, things become much easier to deal with.

Yes it is going to be a long bleak winter, but what is the alternative? We let a virus wreak havoc and become a lethal nightmare? Until there is a vaccine then this is going to be the way we live. For all we know immunity and antibodies may not be possible for A prolonged period of time if it keeps mutating it’s sequencing.

Society will have to adapt, both socially and economically if lockdowns are the new normal. To think otherwise is frankly delusional I’m afraid.

Now, we have a UK winter to look forward to, grey skies, rain, short days, long dark nights. Even a boring fucking walk to all the same places for the 1,000th time in the spring and summer will seem like it was a treat, compared to trudging though wind and rain and sleet. Where's the pleasure in that? Or in standing outside trying to speak to someone 2m away in a knifing Arctic wind?

I completely agree, @Tolleshunt. The time between the clocks going back in October and the solstice in December is horrendous. It just gets darker, and darker and although people on MN love to witter on about crisp days and winter sunshine, more often than not we get grey and dull. In Glasgow in Nov/Dec it's not light until 9am, dark again by 3pm. Utterly depressing.

"Snuggling on the sofa" and "hot choc" have zero appeal to me. Usually, I struggle through those months with my high--dose Vit D and my lightbox. Meet friends for coffee. Go for a mooch round museums or NT properties or other inside places.

Now, even without plans for another tightening of restrictions, you can't do that. You can't decide spontaneously to go to a museum on a crap day because you have to book in advance. And wear a mask. Many places here still aren't open, or open reduced hours.

We were all totally on board with the "save the NHS" message and everyone accepted that we needed to change for a short period to stop the NHS being swamped. But it was never swamped. Doctors and nurses had plenty of time to film dances and post them online. GPs barricaded the doors and still haven't reopened properly, 6 months later. Thousands of outpatient appointments cancelled, operations, treatment for serious stuff like cancer.

Now the message isn't "save the NHS" it's "stop anyone getting ill, ever". Unachievable.

Covid is one risk of many which we need to learn to accept, and live with. We cannot live like this for the foreseeable future. We need to accept that Covid isn't more important than all the other illnesses and conditions out there, and just get on with it.

Until there is a vaccine then this is going to be the way we live

What if there isnt one?

I’m 55 and in March was meant to have the bowel cancer screening test. That was obviously cancelled and it hasn’t been re-arranged yet. So I agree with peeps who say non Covid deaths will be rising.

@Dawnlassie then we learn to live with it as we are now. No one knows what happens if you catch this 4,5 6 times and the damage it may do internally. In my opinion this is the elephant in the room.

@Trebore - I think your comment is rather unfair. I have an 85 year old aunt who is alert, independent and enjoys life. Would you rather she were killed off so that some 35 year old could go to the pub?

What's the point in rules of 6, curfews etc. If they keep the bloody flights open?

@lubeybooby

Attempting some rallying cheer - All this thing needs is time and for people to wear masks and follow the rules. You know how fast time passes. Approximately five minutes until this is decades ago. Think how fast xmas keeps appearing. 1990 is 30 years ago, etc.

Bull. Utter Bull.

We've been following all the rules, even the ones that make no sense but it's made no difference. We're heading into lockdown again and it doesn't matter if you followed the rules or not apparently. May as well have gone to raves this whole way through for all the difference it's made. Forgot a mask today so thought I'd swerve my coffee at lunch but as it's made no difference I'm just not going to.

Fed up of the "wear a mask, follow the rules and it'll be over" brigade. I've done everything and all it's done is screw me and my family over. Only going to do things to look after the health of my family now and as we've all already had it screw the rest of you.

"Apparently one of the major causes of the spread in the north is "grass roots sport" so we do need to crack down on that. So technically swapping Sunday am footie for a walk would help. Bet they don't thoug cos footie is a majority male sport so we can't let the boyz go without."

Do you have a source for that? That's depressing. My sport and my DDs sport are acting cautiously. No clubhouse or changing rooms open. My DDs has marshalls on site ensuring Sd before the game and for parents watching. Is this a case of footballing men ruining it for everyone else?

[quote crystalsue]@alwayslosing
*I wonder what happens to the rich who have private health insurance...have they been denied care as well? I don't have the answer to that but please if you have knowledge of this please let me know."

I've needed eye surgery since April. Throughout the summer I desperately tried to get it done privately but couldn't. I am stuck with a condition that is putting my eyesight at risk and I am scared. I eventually secured surgery for late October but I would be amazed if that goes ahead now.

I really think we are screwed whatever approach we take, I can see both sides to this argument. It is so, SO wrong that people are being denied cancer diagnosis/treatment while pubs are open. All of this does feel like a massive overreaction to something that by itself has such a low mortality rate. But if we let it run rampant then we are still fucked anyway because the healthcare system will collapse. So perhaps it isn't an overreaction after all. It's so depressing and I just don't think there is an answer. I don't know where I stand.

I do feel angry that 80% of people on my social media blatantly have no regard for social distancing - and they're just the ones who post the pictures. I think the key is to just be sensible, which evidently most people are not...[/quote]
This is probably one of the best posts I've read on this subject @crystalsue. This encompasses the dilemmas and nuances. Rather than the "vulnerable stay at home, job done" nonsense I keep hearing. I really hope you get your operation sorted.

I’ve got friends that run a business. They had to take out massive loans and remortgage in order to know their business going which employs 140 staff. Most were furloughed but there were still bills to pay. This business really cannot survive another lockdown. They cannot take on any more loans as they do have to be repaid. If this business folds that’s 140 staff out of a job. It’s ok for me, I’m wfh still being paid. But I understand that we cAnnot go into another lockdown.