Another National Lockdown

[Malachite234]

What are the chances ? Sky News are reporting the possibility and a second lockdown has become a reality in Israel.

How likely do you think it is ?

@Worriedmum999

Without a lockdown society will grind to a halt anyway if it gets to the stage where 1000 people a day are dying again. People won’t go to the shops or to restaurants or send their children to school.

And it mystifies me why people think we won’t be there again in 6 weeks time. Cases are doubling every week, that is a fact. That’s 3.5k, 7k, 14k, 28k, 56k, over 100k of cases very quickly. The virus has not mutated to be less dangerous. It is currently mainly younger people who are affected (like all those skiers back in Feb) but it’s now working its way back to the elderly just like before. Deaths will be increasing dramatically soon. We were fooled by the lag between cases and deaths last time, I can’t believe we are going to be so stupid again.

You know you cant guess case numbers like that.

Scotland had around 240 cases on Sunday, yet only 80 on Monday.

If ppl followed the rules on new grouping numbers and keep up with current laws then there's no reason why numbers can't reduce.

You must be either stupid or incredibly naive to think a vaccine will be approved within the next 12 months. This is our reality now, life pre-covid is over.

Now THAT is doom-mongering.

There will be a vaccine, probably several vaccines, probably sooner than most people think and almost certainly before 12 months. We don’t have to live with masks and glumness forever. We just have to suck it up for now and do whatever we can as individuals to stop the virus spreading. It’s short term, it’s doable, it’s not fun but it’s better than the ‘let the virus go’ alternative.

Agree @GoldenOmber

The measures we have are what we need to do now but no return to “pre Covid life” ever is just ridiculous. No kids getting a proper education/sitting exams? Public transport running a quarter full? Businesses all running at half capacity? Yeah sure. That’s really the way a functioning society, including an NHS, can be run long term.

Even Nicola Sturgeon’s latest message is “this won’t last forever and will be over”.

There pretty much already are several vaccines. They probably need some tweaking to improve their effectiveness but they're almost certainly happening. The only real issue is how quickly we can mass distribute them. Work also continues on new and improved treatments including those that can prevent hospitalisation stage. It won't get better overnight but it won't last forever.

[quote Ecosse]@SemperIdem

Ridiculous scaremongering- no lives have been considered disposable.

The government set up a programme specifically to protect the vulnerable and paid their wages to enable them to do so.

Personally I’d restart shielding and extend it to all members of the shielder’s household. Food and medicine deliveries should also be provided.

The rest of us need to keep the economy going in order to ensure there is money available to continue funding the NHS.[/quote]
paid their wages? I must have missed that bit. I worked from home all through the last lockdown.

@Thewiseoneincognito

I’m in full agreement with *@Nellodee* I was one of those back in January February trying to get people to realise the severity of the situation we faced. This isn’t going to magically disappear over night because we don’t have any money to lockdown again. Our lives are going to be impacted by this massively as we head into the colder months. You must be either stupid or incredibly naive to think a vaccine will be approved within the next 12 months. This is our reality now, life pre-covid is over. The sooner you admit this the easier it becomes to adjust.

Nellodees post had some good points (the holiday threads on here were always highly wishful), but this is overkill. It is not our reality now.

I also very much agree with this

If you don't want a second national lockdown, then how about people actually start acting like the Swedish people they laud so much, taking responsibility, and cutting back on all excess social interactions of their own free will.

The amount of pp constantly saying I want Sweden but using it as an excuse to do whatever they like, unlike Sweden, is crazy.

The wrong people are in lockdown , Its not the elderly or those with young children who need this. Anyone caught not following the rule, , at a large gathering , refusing to wear a mask or causing hassle , should be made to isolate, so the rest of society, following the rules can go about normal daily life . No fines should be imposed , simply enforced lockdown for them, a little more freedom for normal law abiding people

I think part of the problem is an innate human desire to not only know what is going to happen but to actually do something.

A desire to model and look at exponential growth and say that is what is going to happen, look at France and say well we are two weeks behind. Because even if it is bad we think it helps to know what is coming.

But that isnt how it works across the board - national lockdown wont work because each area in the UK is different. 4 different nations then within that many different local authorities. 17 english Local Authorities case rates dropped - they certainly do not need a lockdown.

A poster on this or another thread was angry that the Government was debating Brexit yesterday and not this. Well of course they are in the longer term the implications of a No Deal Brexit are just as scary (arguably scarier) than this. And it is something they can absolutely do something about.

Swedens approach is the right one now (adapted to suit individual countries). Their ethos was always this is a marathon not a sprint and the balance is needed to ensure some form of normal life can occur alongside the virus.

Inevitable once flu season hits. Already started gradually stocking back up on tins/medicine etc

So over all this, a more normal life seems so far away.

I agree with many of your points.

Sweden have done what is right for Sweden, in the same way other countries have responded in other ways - harsher or more lenient. Sweden was happy to be the guinea pig in this case, and I for one would not wish to follow a completely untested trial of millions of people to see what happens when a virus is allowed to run riot as they did back in the spring, not with a country of 68 million personally. I was happy to see the lockdown, because we could see in New York, Italy and Spain what happened to the hospitals quartz when the virus was not contained in some way.

I do greatly admire the Swedish model however, and I agree 'a version' of a similar model would be welcome here, but we have to take into consideration our national characteristics are different, the population sizes and geography and the social norms of any one country.

I think we have it about right now, we still have some kind of life functioning, it is not perfect or ideal but it must work. The alternative is another strict lockdown, and the financial, health and mental health implications that will follow.

@PremierInn

I'm knackered. I've worked full pelt the last six months let's all swap and I'll stay home the next six

Me too!

‘Let the virus go?’

It already is going. Soaring in fact. The WHO regularly announcing new record daily cases.

Another national lockdown? Feck off!

lock down was lifted far too early. A second will be needed but i doubt very much BoJo will bother - he has wanted herd immunity the whole pandemic and with his wishy washy random guidelines that never seem to apply to the seriously minted and changed every 2 seconds, he clearly never intended to ever protect anyone and i see him making less of an effort for the second wave.

I've had it and it nearly killed me so it is bloody serious. If people would just stop being so eager to get back to pubs and non essential shopping and just keep to the minimum with distancing and masks then we might get away without one, but the general population is horribly selfish and only concerned with making themselves happy and comfortable and doing what they fancy that they are screwing this up for the entire population.

The stupid random rules from the government dont help -most of them end up contradicting other rules and anyone rich is exempt from everything anyway. The second wave will kill more than the first and the government are fine with that.

If people cant stay home for a while what the hell would they do if the UK turned into a war zone or brought back forced army service? Seriously people - shut up with the moaning and behave like grown ups!

As for kids missing out - they are pampered more than any generation ever! They can stay home a while without the world falling apart. It's not like they are being sent up chimneys or made to work in factories that are dangerous enough to kill them, they dont have to walk miles for water or starve to death - they just have to stay home. I seriously hate the term but - BUNCH OF SNOWFLAKES!!!!

@LittleCatZ

Is there a tipping point of local lockdowns that it is almost a national one?

So pissed off that there were no cases in our area for weeks but now we have a self-isolating DC.

Read an interesting article about protest often accompanying epidemics throughout history and that people basically cannot behave in the interests of the greater good.

Presumably if cases continue to increase and more and more areas end up in local lockdown, it will get to the point when more of the country is in lockdown than aren't. It might sound ridiculous but surely it could happen the way things are going currently?

@elfies

The wrong people are in lockdown , Its not the elderly or those with young children who need this. Anyone caught not following the rule, , at a large gathering , refusing to wear a mask or causing hassle , should be made to isolate, so the rest of society, following the rules can go about normal daily life . No fines should be imposed , simply enforced lockdown for them, a little more freedom for normal law abiding people

exactly! But unless you put them in some kind of detention centre - how would you lock them down? (personally im all for the detention centre but im guessing there is going to be no way that will happen) if they dont want to follow the rules they just wont, mean while us lot that are sticking to the rules and still avoiding doing too much are going to suffer.

We simply don't have enough police and army to force millions of people into isolation against their wishes, whatever their risk profile. So it won't happen.

@LovelyIssues

Inevitable once flu season hits. Already started gradually stocking back up on tins/medicine etc

And brexit.

We're prepping.

MENU

TalkCoronavirus

FirstPrevNextLast21

NHS Coronavirus information|Advice from Public Health England
Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have medical concerns,please seek medical attention

Another National Lockdown521

OP’s posts:See all

Show OP

Today 00:33pontypridd

I think if the general public trusted the government more they would listen and follow the rules willingly.

I think this is why Sweden has had more success than us?

Our government has lost the trust of it's people. We will not follow it's rules now or in another Lockdown. I think this 2nd wave will be a lot worse than the first because of this.

We are all fucked basically and I guess Boris and Dom must be largely responsible for this.

Bookmark

Today 00:35Torvean32

Worriedmum999

Without a lockdown society will grind to a halt anyway if it gets to the stage where 1000 people a day are dying again. People won’t go to the shops or to restaurants or send their children to school.

And it mystifies me why people think we won’t be there again in 6 weeks time. Cases are doubling every week, that is a fact. That’s 3.5k, 7k, 14k, 28k, 56k, over 100k of cases very quickly. The virus has not mutated to be less dangerous. It is currently mainly younger people who are affected (like all those skiers back in Feb) but it’s now working its way back to the elderly just like before. Deaths will be increasing dramatically soon. We were fooled by the lag between cases and deaths last time, I can’t believe we are going to be so stupid again.

You know you cant guess case numbers like that.

Scotland had around 240 cases on Sunday, yet only 80 on Monday.

If ppl followed the rules on new grouping numbers and keep up with current laws then there's no reason why numbers can't reduce.

Bookmark

Today 00:38GoldenOmber

You must be either stupid or incredibly naive to think a vaccine will be approved within the next 12 months. This is our reality now, life pre-covid is over.

Now THAT is doom-mongering.

There will be a vaccine, probably several vaccines, probably sooner than most people think and almost certainly before 12 months. We don’t have to live with masks and glumness forever. We just have to suck it up for now and do whatever we can as individuals to stop the virus spreading. It’s short term, it’s doable, it’s not fun but it’s better than the ‘let the virus go’ alternative.

Bookmark

HIDE AD

ADVERTISEMENT

Today 00:42MadameBlobby

Agree@GoldenOmber

The measures we have are what we need to do now but no return to “pre Covid life” ever is just ridiculous. No kids getting a proper education/sitting exams? Public transport running a quarter full? Businesses all running at half capacity? Yeah sure. That’s really the way a functioning society, including an NHS, can be run long term.

Bookmark

Today 00:44MadameBlobby

Even Nicola Sturgeon’s latest message is “this won’t last forever and will be over”.

Bookmark

Today 01:01SheepandCow

There pretty much already are several vaccines. They probably need some tweaking to improve their effectiveness but they're almost certainly happening. The only real issue is how quickly we can mass distribute them. Work also continues on new and improved treatments including those that can prevent hospitalisation stage. It won't get better overnight but it won't last forever.

Bookmark

Top tips for starting primary school

Today 03:07herecomesthsun

Ecosse

@SemperIdem

Ridiculous scaremongering- no lives have been considered disposable.

The government set up a programme specifically to protect the vulnerable and paid their wages to enable them to do so.

Personally I’d restart shielding and extend it to all members of the shielder’s household. Food and medicine deliveries should also be provided.

The rest of us need to keep the economy going in order to ensure there is money available to continue funding the NHS.

paid their wages? I must have missed that bit. I worked from home all through the last lockdown.

Bookmark

Today 07:15MarshaBradyo

Thewiseoneincognito

I’m in full agreement with@NellodeeI was one of those back in January February trying to get people to realise the severity of the situation we faced. This isn’t going to magically disappear over night because we don’t have any money to lockdown again. Our lives are going to be impacted by this massively as we head into the colder months. You must be either stupid or incredibly naive to think a vaccine will be approved within the next 12 months. This is our reality now, life pre-covid is over. The sooner you admit this the easier it becomes to adjust.

Nellodees post had some good points (the holiday threads on here were always highly wishful), but this is overkill. It is not our reality now.

Bookmark

Today 07:18MarshaBradyo

I also very much agree with this

If you don't want a second national lockdown, then how about people actually start acting like the Swedish people they laud so much, taking responsibility, and cutting back on all excess social interactions of their own free will.

The amount of pp constantly saying I want Sweden but using it as an excuse to do whatever they like, unlike Sweden, is crazy.

Bookmark

Today 07:39elfies

The wrong people are in lockdown , Its not the elderly or those with young children who need this. Anyone caught not following the rule, , at a large gathering , refusing to wear a mask or causing hassle , should be made to isolate, so the rest of society, following the rules can go about normal daily life . No fines should be imposed , simply enforced lockdown for them, a little more freedom for normal law abiding people

Bookmark

Today 07:46Quartz2208

I think part of the problem is an innate human desire to not only know what is going to happen but to actually do something.

A desire to model and look at exponential growth and say that is what is going to happen, look at France and say well we are two weeks behind. Because even if it is bad we think it helps to know what is coming.

But that isnt how it works across the board - national lockdown wont work because each area in the UK is different. 4 different nations then within that many different local authorities. 17 english Local Authorities case rates dropped - they certainly do not need a lockdown.

A poster on this or another thread was angry that the Government was debating Brexit yesterday and not this. Well of course they are in the longer term the implications of a No Deal Brexit are just as scary (arguably scarier) than this. And it is something they can absolutely do something about.

Swedens approach is the right one now (adapted to suit individual countries). Their ethos was always this is a marathon not a sprint and the balance is needed to ensure some form of normal life can occur alongside the virus.

Bookmark

Today 09:55LovelyIssues

Inevitable once flu season hits. Already started gradually stocking back up on tins/medicine etc

Bookmark

ADVERTISEMENT

Should I put my retirement on hold? Essential read.Fidelity (Capital at risk)

Recommended by

Today 10:55kittensarecute

So over all this, a more normal life seems so far away.

Bookmark

Today 11:34Friendsoftheearth

I agree with many of your points.

Sweden have done what is right for Sweden, in the same way other countries have responded in other ways - harsher or more lenient. Sweden was happy to be the guinea pig in this case, and I for one would not wish to follow a completely untested trial of millions of people to see what happens when a virus is allowed to run riot as they did back in the spring, not with a country of 68 million personally. I was happy to see the lockdown, because we could see in New York, Italy and Spain what happened to the hospitalsquartzwhen the virus was not contained in some way.

I do greatly admire the Swedish model however, and I agree 'a version' of a similar model would be welcome here, but we have to take into consideration our national characteristics are different, the population sizes and geography and the social norms of any one country.

I think we have it about right now, we still have some kind of life functioning, it is not perfect or ideal but it must work. The alternative is another strict lockdown, and the financial, health and mental health implications that will follow.

Bookmark

Today 13:52purityjonesrockedmyworld

PremierInn

I'm knackered. I've worked full pelt the last six months let's all swap and I'll stay home the next six

Me too!

Bookmark

Today 14:09MummyPop00

‘Let the virus go?’

It already is going. Soaring in fact. The WHO regularly announcing new record daily cases.

Another national lockdown? Feck off!

Bookmark

Today 15:04bemusedmoose

lock down was lifted far too early. A second will be needed but i doubt very much BoJo will bother - he has wanted herd immunity the whole pandemic and with his wishy washy random guidelines that never seem to apply to the seriously minted and changed every 2 seconds, he clearly never intended to ever protect anyone and i see him making less of an effort for the second wave.

I've had it and it nearly killed me so it is bloody serious. If people would just stop being so eager to get back to pubs and non essential shopping and just keep to the minimum with distancing and masks then we might get away without one, but the general population is horribly selfish and only concerned with making themselves happy and comfortable and doing what they fancy that they are screwing this up for the entire population.

The stupid random rules from the government dont help -most of them end up contradicting other rules and anyone rich is exempt from everything anyway. The second wave will kill more than the first and the government are fine with that.

If people cant stay home for a while what the hell would they do if the UK turned into a war zone or brought back forced army service? Seriously people - shut up with the moaning and behave like grown ups!

As for kids missing out - they are pampered more than any generation ever! They can stay home a while without the world falling apart. It's not like they are being sent up chimneys or made to work in factories that are dangerous enough to kill them, they dont have to walk miles for water or starve to death - they just have to stay home. I seriously hate the term but - BUNCH OF SNOWFLAKES!!!!*

How long do you think lockdown should have been?
Some industries havent started back yet after closing in March.
It's not so much of an ask to ask consumers "not to go to the pub, not to go to football, not to go to theatres, not to go to a festivals, not to go out to buy non essentials" I completely get that and bar a short break in the uk, we have barely been out except to work, and we have eaten out 4 times.

However that's from a consumers point of view. Imagine all the jobs at risk (or already lost) from no one doing these things for 6 months, a year, how long?
I work in a completely non essential industry.....but I rely on people wanting their non essentials so I can pay the bills.
I'm worried about the prospect of covid 19 and the death and illness it causes but I'm also worried about the impact of another lockdown.

I dont know what happened in my last post!!!
This is in response to bemusedmoose
How long do you think lockdown should have been?
Some industries havent started back yet after closing in March.
It's not so much of an ask to ask consumers "not to go to the pub, not to go to football, not to go to theatres, not to go to a festivals, not to go out to buy non essentials" I completely get that and bar a short break in the uk, we have barely been out except to work, and we have eaten out 4 times.

However that's from a consumers point of view. Imagine all the jobs at risk (or already lost) from no one doing these things for 6 months, a year, how long?
I work in a completely non essential industry.....but I rely on people wanting their non essentials so I can pay the bills.
I'm worried about the prospect of covid 19 and the death and illness it causes but I'm also worried about the impact of another lockdown.

‘Long covid’ doesn’t exist @SheepandCow. Approximately 1% of people do have after effects that vary in severity. But that is no different to any other virus. It is not a new thing

The two people I follow on Twitter who have long covid would beg to differ. One of them is still having temperature spikes even now, and she got it in the middle of March.

At the start of the year, and again when we opened up after not properly locking down in the first place how would you have "properly" locked down? Locked all the kids in their flats like the Spanish did? They don't have any cases now...oh wait, they have a lot more than we do, with a smaller population (and no, they didn't catch them all from British tourists). I don't get what people wanted with the lockdown - ban people from going out for exercise?

I wonder what would be happening now if (God forbid) the guy on that Easyjet flight had died of an asthma attack

Any lawyers reading this?

@helenadove - it would have been absolutely fine for passenger not to wear mask - he just failed to bring the requisition paperwork in this regard that EasyJet had directed him to bring

Long covid’ doesn’t exist @SheepandCow. Approximately 1% of people do have after effects that vary in severity. But that is no different to any other virus. It is not a new thing

@Ecosse - I do wish you would stop peddling this shot on this thread and other threads

this is not the view of experts - eg Johns Hopkins and research articles Published in BMJ.

And here is a study from an Italian hospital (Courtesy of BMJ)

What does the evidence say?
Aside from anecdotal evidence, there is as yet little research on this issue. However, it is being actively discussed within the research community. Writing in JAMA, a team of researchers from Italy reported that nearly nine in 10 patients (87%) discharged from a Rome hospital after recovering from covid-19 were still experiencing at least one symptom 60 days after onset. They found that 13% of the 143 people were completely free of any symptoms, while 32% had one or two symptoms, and 55% had three or more.3 Although none of the patients had fever or any signs or symptoms of acute illness, many still reported fatigue (53%), dyspnoea (43%), joint pain (27%), and chest pain (22%).Two fifths of patients reported a worsened quality of life.

So clearly it does exist . Or maybe you just know better than scientists and research studies on real data