Another National Lockdown

[Malachite234]

What are the chances ? Sky News are reporting the possibility and a second lockdown has become a reality in Israel.

How likely do you think it is ?

@SemperIdem

Ridiculous scaremongering- no lives have been considered disposable.

The government set up a programme specifically to protect the vulnerable and paid their wages to enable them to do so.

Personally I’d restart shielding and extend it to all members of the shielder’s household. Food and medicine deliveries should also be provided.

The rest of us need to keep the economy going in order to ensure there is money available to continue funding the NHS.

I think some of the areas where there is a local lockdown may move to a stricter lockdown if current measures don't work ; and that there are other areas will be put on local lockdown , but no, I don't think there will be another national lockdown while there are areas where cases remain low .

One thing about local lockdowns and having the restrictions slightly different depending on perceived issues in that area (eg some are closing pubs, others stopping family visiting ) makes it very difficult to work out what your particular rules are , especially if you border a local lockdown area .

[quote Whatshouldicallme]@Ecosse

Can you (or anyone else who has referenced this) explain or provide a source to explain how lockdown itself impacted on cancer treatment? My understanding is that the NHS needed to divert resources from regular services to manage the influx of COVID admissions. To me, this seems like a consequence of mass amounts of people becoming infected with COVID and overwhelming hospital services. It's not as if all the cancer doctors were home on furlough, they were still working to try to save people's lives -- there were just more lives to save due to COVID. Am I missing something?I am genuinely wondering bc people say this all the time and it makes no sense to me.[/quote]
I can probably answer this.

As you mention, medical, nursing staff and AHP staff were diverted to care for covid patients. In some hospitals whole floors (in our case, most of the 16 floor hospital) became covid wards. So cancer wards shrank.

GP services were telephone only and a lot of people were afraid to call or present with cancer symptoms. Some were afraid they would be admitted to hospital and catch covid. They are only turning up now and often it’s too late.

A lot of cancer work is behind as 1. We couldn’t test patients or staff for ages and the risk to eg (in the case of prostate ca as an example) elderly men from getting covid during a surgical admission was high. GAs are aerosol generating so Surgery is high risk to staff. 2. The specialist staff and wards were deployed for covid and short staffed even before the pandemic so there was no one to do this work 3. We were asked to rationalise treatments risk vs benefit, which resulted in some things being stopped.

@Ecosse I’m not referring to government policy.

I am referring to the utterly disgusting, unforgivable way a huge amount of the general public have behaved since March, towards me and my team. Verbal abuse, threats of violence - not occasionally - daily. Repeatedly.

I don’t care how stressed someone is, everyone is stressed. If they are threatening to punch a young woman in the face because they can’t get what they want then the problem is very much them. Seen it happen, had it happen to me, more times since March than you would care to believe.

@Ecosse

I do find it distasteful how some people are almost praying for deaths to increase so they can be proved right about all the evil people going to the pub or beach. There were similar proclamations after VE Day.

Fortunately cases have been rising since July 7th and deaths have been falling every since.

I'm bloody sick of the accusations of people salivating over the idea of increased deaths. I've been participating in these threads since January time and have been called a doom monger more times than I can count. I've not been wrong yet, but I fucking wish I was, all the time. Maybe if people would fucking listen to the "doom mongers" once in a while, we wouldn't actually be in this mess.

Yes, it was irresponsible to have booked that ski trip to Italy. No, you weren't going to get that holiday you booked at Easter. Yes, the schools were going to close. No, we wouldn't be able to cope with people isolating for the common cold when kids went back to school and yes, we are going to have a bloody second wave. None of those are or were good things, none of those are things anyone wants, but being sick to the back teeth of Covid isn't going to make any of them not happen.

If you don't want a second national lockdown, then how about people actually start acting like the Swedish people they laud so much, taking responsibility, and cutting back on all excess social interactions of their own free will.

Are people thinking the government will fund the furlough scheme again if we lock down, or are people thinking a lock down with exorbitant job losses?

I can’t imagine that furlough will happen again.

@Staffy1
"No. I think hospitals will do less non-covid things again, private hospitals will shut again"

Not all private hospitals closed a lot were doing the NHS cancer operations.

@NHT32

I’m sure if they closed all pubs again for a month the numbers would come down again. They need to do this and support the pub industry and workers. That charity football match the other week where 1/3 of those there got it, sums it up. Few beers and social distancing goes out of the window!

I disagree . People would just meet up in their homes where there would be even less social distancing . Have a look at the restrictions in a lot of the current local lockdowns , certainly the one in the West Midlands , pubs are still open but people cannot meet others within their homes . Test and trace info has shown that this has been the main cause of rise in cases and it's been across all areas .

I think that there does need to be a bit more monitoring of pubs and restaurants sticking to regulations as, although everywhere I've been has has very clear procedures that have been followed, I know it's not the case everywhere.

@CoronaIsWatching

If they did the original lockdown 2 weeks earlier we wouldn't be in this position in the first place. Shower of shite government. They can't implement schemes like Help out to eat out then blame us for cases rising. I'm not complying with another lockdown

What, so you think the virus will avoid you because everything is the fault of the government?

I think a second lockdown is getting more likely as the number of cases per day has increased rapidly in the last week or so. The biggest issue is people don't seem to be following the rules - i'm sick of seeing images of crowded pubs on the news and large family groups or groups of friends gathering at people's houses on social media. At least the deaths seem to be low currently which might help prevent another lockdown for now at least.

Funding will definitely be the biggest issue as the government won't be able to afford furlough again. That being said, many businesses must be down on revenue amyway due to lower capacity due to Covid secure measures or just because fewer people want to go out.

We certainly seem to be in a worrying position.

@Topseyt but you were always allowed to visit your parents to provide care. That was an exception to the full lockdown rules (in England anyway)

I'll eat my hat if there's another national lockdown. I really cannot see it happening.
Definitely lots of local lockdowns but not a full, national one.

[quote DickintheDob]@Staffy1
"No. I think hospitals will do less non-covid things again, private hospitals will shut again"

Not all private hospitals closed a lot were doing the NHS cancer operations.[/quote]
I know, I meant they will close for almost anything non-NHS apart from online appointments which aren't really much use for a lot of things.

@Nellodee hard agree. People, whether you think we’re doom-mongers & bedwetters (nice) I really don’t care anymore but please, please think ahead, plan for disruption, closures & quarantines.
If it doesn’t come to pass, then so what, you can laugh at the doom-mongers. But if it all does go to shit, at least you’ve got a back up on childcare, elderly relatives etc. Don’t just assume life can go on as normal in a pandemic.

@Nellodee explains it perfectly.

The real problem is the 'Doom Causers': those who refuse to admit or accept the reality, desperately insisting the required measures aren't needed. That's what causes the deaths, disability from Long Covid, and economic damage. The so-called 'doom-mongerers' are desperately hoping that third time round they'll be heeded - so that we avoid seeing deaths increase, hospital treatments postponed, schools, pubs, and restaurants closed, and jobs lost. It's called foresight (and now, hindsight too). Preventation is better than reaction.

The first lockdown was shite. No furlough, juggling work (which blew up busier than ever) home learning, supporting a shielding DP who can no longer help with childcare and instead needs care. Neighbours did not help the pupils at home by ploughing on with major renovations (cement trucks at least 3 times ffs).

After 8 days with DC back at school, DC1 bubble (ridiculously, unsustainably, massive year group) burst and now have DC back home. I wish I had faith that there was going to be an end to this without riots.

I know there can’t be another national lockdown economically but I’m very unhappy that despite us following all the rules, other people can’t seem to do the same and keep the virus under control.

Is there a tipping point of local lockdowns that it is almost a national one?

So pissed off that there were no cases in our area for weeks but now we have a self-isolating DC.

Read an interesting article about protest often accompanying epidemics throughout history and that people basically cannot behave in the interests of the greater good.

@KnobChops

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/13/gps-told-give-patients-face-to-face-appointments-investigated/?fbclid=IwAR1jpTJFxDsET-6AK7rA8Axt4QjhBvNoux1jXjsIEf6hv2qtBdxAobsVWqc

GPs told to give patients face-to-face appointments or be investigated
Warning comes amid growing concern that too many people being 'shut out' from surgeries amid coronavirus crisis

I endorse @Nellodee and her message.

I’m hated by some on here so I will lose few friends when I say some people are too stupid or too selfish to operate effectively in a pandemic. It requires foresight and empathy and these qualities are in fairly short supply in our “I want it now!” world.

The fools who tried to minimise this global public health emergency, who relied on pseudoscience and conspiracy nuts for their information, and who refused to believe how serious this was own what comes next. If you have any decency you’ll apologise, but I suspect you’ll just run to your 5G, Bill Gates, Us For Them, Keep Britain Free nutter mates and whine about someone scaremongering, because confronting the reality of a pandemic is hard and you haven’t got the courage for it.

Anyhow, enjoy learning how it feels to be completely and utterly wrong and the next time there’s a debate about how to deal with this virus, please keep your mouths very firmly shut.

[quote Whatshouldicallme]@Ecosse

Can you (or anyone else who has referenced this) explain or provide a source to explain how lockdown itself impacted on cancer treatment? My understanding is that the NHS needed to divert resources from regular services to manage the influx of COVID admissions. To me, this seems like a consequence of mass amounts of people becoming infected with COVID and overwhelming hospital services. It's not as if all the cancer doctors were home on furlough, they were still working to try to save people's lives -- there were just more lives to save due to COVID. Am I missing something?I am genuinely wondering bc people say this all the time and it makes no sense to me.[/quote]
This. I just don't get it either.

I’m in full agreement with @Nellodee I was one of those back in January February trying to get people to realise the severity of the situation we faced. This isn’t going to magically disappear over night because we don’t have any money to lockdown again. Our lives are going to be impacted by this massively as we head into the colder months. You must be either stupid or incredibly naive to think a vaccine will be approved within the next 12 months. This is our reality now, life pre-covid is over. The sooner you admit this the easier it becomes to adjust.

@Thewiseoneincognito

I’m in full agreement with *@Nellodee* I was one of those back in January February trying to get people to realise the severity of the situation we faced. This isn’t going to magically disappear over night because we don’t have any money to lockdown again. Our lives are going to be impacted by this massively as we head into the colder months. You must be either stupid or incredibly naive to think a vaccine will be approved within the next 12 months. This is our reality now, life pre-covid is over. The sooner you admit this the easier it becomes to adjust.

But what are we adjusting for?

This lifestyle is not sustainable any longer than short term. Pre-Covid life has to return, at least largely or there just isn’t going to be a society/economy/health service to protect!

I’m not saying now of course, or even in the foreseeable future, but that this is any way sustainable long term is a ridiculous suggestion.

I think if the general public trusted the government more they would listen and follow the rules willingly.

I think this is why Sweden has had more success than us?

Our government has lost the trust of it's people. We will not follow it's rules now or in another Lockdown. I think this 2nd wave will be a lot worse than the first because of this.

We are all fucked basically and I guess Boris and Dom must be largely responsible for this.