Another National Lockdown

[Malachite234]

What are the chances ? Sky News are reporting the possibility and a second lockdown has become a reality in Israel.

How likely do you think it is ?

Of course you can’t leave millions of people with no money

Of course you can, happens in all recessions, millions made redundant, people lose houses after redundancy.
In most households two are working anyway, doubtful people will starve.
They may be pretty broke though.
Yes, we will no doubt have another lockdown.

"The majority of disabled people should stay at home to protect the small minority who are genuinely exempt? In this situation, where both groups are disabled, the needs of the majority has to take precedence."

If you compared the risks of allowing people without masks out versus all the consequences of keeping them locked up inside, being allowed out would win. Who is in the majority is irrelevant in this case as well as being irrelevant in equality law generally.

@toolatetooearly yes true but the idea we can just let this run through Society is naive.

[quote Oaktree55]@VinylDetective you have looked into the lag from infections in the young to older or more vulnerable people yes? Then obviously the lag from hospital admissions to deaths?[/quote]
No I haven’t because it’s pointless. Currently there are tiny numbers of hospital admissions and deaths. If those start to rise exponentially, that will be the time to worry.

[quote Newjez]@rubbishatballet

Mmm. Some random comes on Mumsnet and starts talking about secret preparations for a mid October vaccine deployment, which is three weeks time.

I think not.

Despite conflicting with the flu jab, which would be completely untested.

No, I don't think so.[/quote]
Fair enough. Lots of people know about/are involved with it currently so I'm not sure I'd describe it as particularly 'secret', but there you go. (Plus if I felt it was that secret I certainly wouldn't be talking about it on here!)

I don't know re the flu vaccine, but I'd be surprised if this hadn't been considered as part of the trials? Stressing again that I have no specialist knowledge in this area, but aren't quite a lot of vaccinations given at the same time as each other, or in quick succession?

@SheepandCow

In response to this:
Not least because the mask police want disabled people who are exempt to stay at home to protect them, they couldn’t care less about the well-being of their disabled exempt person

I stated:
"This isn't about disabled people. Not all people exempt from wearing masks are disabled."
and
"Do those who are exempt from wearing masks care that they may transmit the virus to the non-exempt?"

You:
"It's pretty low to use disabled people as an excuse for widespread lack of mask wearing." etc etc

I have not said disabled people aren't using masks. My posts have referred to mask wearers and those exempt from wearing masks. The exempt may include some people who coincidentally are disabled but, as you have stated, many disabled people do wear masks. (I am actually a carer for a relative with a disability who wears a mask).

I believe this could be done very easily. Yes, it is tough but it isn't forever. The quicker we get numbers of infections down again, the sooner restrictions will be relaxed

I applaud your optimism, but what will happen in reality is that cases will go up due to the govt intelligently offering people one last weekend to party, then if the rate goes down they will say that we've sacrificed so much we can't let up now, and if it doesn't they will say that we need more lockdown. So I suspect the rule is here to stay, which is why I'm disinclined to take it too seriously.

I don't think we should go back into a full lockdown (let's face it, it was never a full on lockdown by some countries standards!) and I'm not suggesting all those who are vulnerable/disabled/who can't wear masks for X reasons should be locked away.

But we ALL should be looking to find a sensible happy medium surely?

I've been going out to shops but only if I've needed to, not "just for a window shop".

I've had meals out but only with my bubble, in fact I've not come within 2 meters really of more than the same 6 people.

I'm still going out exercising on my own and in a socially distanced way with my club.

So I'm by no means locked away!

I have asthma but very mild so wearing a mask doesn't affect me, but if it did then I would probably steer away from public places. Not because I didn't want to wear a mask, but because if I was vulnerable I wouldn't want to catch Covid!

Similarly, if I had a child who was so disabled that wearing a mask was impossible, I'd take them to places out in the open air but I wouldn't take them to places that could put them at risk. That's not locking them away or torturing them it's finding a balance that helps protect EVERYONE.

This thread has proven to me that the world is far too "but what about meeeeeee?" and "but I'm alright Jack"

"That's not locking them away or torturing them it's finding a balance that helps protect EVERYONE."

Saying that a severely autistic teenager should be forcibly kept indoors until there is a vaccine which was what was suggested as the right thing to do, would be locking away and torture.

What, one man, albeit a Govt advisor

Dominic Cummings
Stephen Kinnock
Robert Jenrick

Stanley Johnson.

on criminal legality - all the mask and maskless chatter online is just hot air and fluff until tested in a senior and highly respected court of law

I wonder what would be happening now if (God forbid) the guy on that Easyjet flight had died of an asthma attack.

Any lawyers reading this?

Yep. They're under huge pressure from the very right wing back benchers who don't see why the plebs are worth protecting (financially as much as health-wise

And the front benches are so keen on protecting people they voted against this.................www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/09/12/gren-s12.html?fbclid=IwAR19POsaJZZgOFmBPL5OFkIg4qLYLssLVzQkjwpQqJ9PouQNtO1EN8oSXU8

UK Conservative government votes down Grenfell Tower safety recommendations as inquiry resumes
By Charles Hixson
12 September 2020
An amendment to the Fire Safety Bill, which would have incorporated safety recommendations called for at the end of Phase 1 of the Grenfell Inquiry, was soundly defeated last Monday night in Parliament.

The devastating fire in June 2017 at the tower block in London’s Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea of Kensington claimed 72 lives due to unsafe cladding and other safety failures—eventually resulting in the setting up of the Grenfell Inquiry.

The hypocrisy stinks.

Stanley Johnson.
😂😂😂😂😂
He is just a member of the public, the same as you or me.

Let's just hope this time round we actually deal with it. Coronavirus isn't going away and the vaccine likely won't be available to everyone for many months.
There is no way to "deal with it". Without a vaccine, as soon as restrictions begin to be lifted there will be a resurgence. Unless we lockdown until a vaccine (which could be forever), there is no point in lockdowns at all now. We got the levels to a low point, now we just need to keep a lid on it.

Stanley Johnson.
😂😂😂😂😂
He is just a member of the public, the same as you or me

So is Piers Corbyn. But people were quite happy to lay the responsibility for his behaviour at the feet of his brother.

Cant have it both ways..................

Won’t happen. And I wouldn’t be relying on sky news for my information either.

@KitKatastrophe

Let's just hope this time round we actually deal with it. Coronavirus isn't going away and the vaccine likely won't be available to everyone for many months. There is no way to "deal with it". Without a vaccine, as soon as restrictions begin to be lifted there will be a resurgence. Unless we lockdown until a vaccine (which could be forever), there is no point in lockdowns at all now. We got the levels to a low point, now we just need to keep a lid on it.

Yes there is a (simple) way to deal with it. It's particularly easy for islands, and it's what sensible countries with foresight like Australia and New Zealand are doing.

as soon as restrictions begin to be lifted there will be a resurgence
Not if we have a stricter lockdown (Spain, Italy, France, etc style) AND ease restrictions gradually (like New York) AND, like NZ and Aus, keep the borders temporarily shut (with proper quarantine where necessary for essential travel like freight and asylum). Even with borders open we could be taking more precautions (like most of Europe and SE Asia are doing).

@HeIenaDove

Maybe this explains why it was voted down. As there is an ongoing consultation, which doesn't end until October, perhaps we should wait until after that period ends. The Govt have already stated they will be implementing the recommendations from phase 1 of the investigation.

www.scottmann.org.uk/news/grenfell-tragedy-and-fire-safety-bill-amendment

www.building.co.uk/communities/anger-over-defeated-fire-safety-bill-amendment-is-misplaced/5107915.article

So is Piers Corbyn. But people were quite happy to lay the responsibility for his behaviour at the feet of his brother.
I agree he is just Joe public too. We shouldn't judge the families of our politicians as if they all hold the same views of their siblings/sons etc.

@HelenaDove
Where's the hypocrisy? I haven't even mentioned Grenfell, and it's the same thing isn't it. The plebs not being protected. Whether from dangerous cladding or the economic and health consequences of not tackling coronavirus.
The pressure to let Covid burn through the population kill the vulnerable and create more vulnerable through Long Covid with few or no restrictions is coming from the very right wing (further right than Boris Johnson and Matthew Hancock) backbench 1922 committee. They're cushioned from the economic consequences of such a gamble.

A lockdown isn’t a lockdown if people won’t comply

Lockdowns are to stop vulnerable people getting infected and dying. Sometimes people die of it who were not considered at risk. That could be you, for all you know. Those who ignore the rules and then become infected will be the first to whinge if the NHS is overwhelmed and can't help them. We are living through an unprecedented crisis and just have to suck it up.

@Ethelfleda

A lockdown isn’t a lockdown if people won’t comply

If they won't comply, we do what we normally do when people don't comply with a law or regulation. Enforce it. Or shall we just abolish all laws and let people so whatever they want consequences be damned? We're not unique or special. Most other countries are managing to ensure guidelines and rules are followed. It would obviously help if we stopped saying oh no we can't, we can't, we can't. That sort of defeatist defiant hybrid attitude is as contagious as a virus.

My husband works for himself and we will be fucked if there is another lockdown, we have barely survived the first one. His business will go under and we will lose our house. We have already had a lockdown and the infection rates are rising now we are out of it, it's not going to go away we have to live with it not ruin peoples lives by shutting us all away.

[quote SheepandCow]@HelenaDove
Where's the hypocrisy? I haven't even mentioned Grenfell, and it's the same thing isn't it. The plebs not being protected. Whether from dangerous cladding or the economic and health consequences of not tackling coronavirus.
The pressure to let Covid burn through the population kill the vulnerable and create more vulnerable through Long Covid with few or no restrictions is coming from the very right wing (further right than Boris Johnson and Matthew Hancock) backbench 1922 committee. They're cushioned from the economic consequences of such a gamble.[/quote]
I'd go further - they are ideally positioned to profit from it. Disaster capitalism at it's lowest.